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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 21, 2010 10:41:45 GMT -5
Have to agree with Kracker on this one. I too have driven by the Oriskany M often and there is no one there when it is open. No reason not to close it.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 21, 2010 12:15:37 GMT -5
Bobbbiez, I'm surprised you feel that way about our war dead.
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Post by denise on Feb 21, 2010 13:09:32 GMT -5
I think it's just another asinine idea from our foolish governor. I came across this article and thought it was interesing. Not much savings will come from these closures, however, a huge loss for those people who utlitize state parks for vacations, picnics, boating and beach days. Closing New York state parks would save little money Syracuse, NY -- State officials on Friday recommended closing dozens of state parks to fill New York’s budget gap, a move that would affect hundreds of thousands of Central New Yorkers and produce minimal savings. The $6.3 million saved through proposed park closures would amount to a fraction of 1 percent of the state’s $8.2 billion budget gap. www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/closing_new_york_state_parks_w.html
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Post by Clipper on Feb 21, 2010 13:54:15 GMT -5
Ten thousand dollars is a drop in a bucket. It is just plain nauseating that the would close the historic sites when there is such a rich history to be found in that area of NY state. I have visited the oriskany battlefield monument many times over the years. It is not disney land and is not going to have a parking lot jammed to capacity on a daily basis, but it does need to be preserved and maintained as an educational site as well as a tribute to the soldiers that died there to make this country a free land.
The selfish bastards in Albany and in Washington want to pick and choose and do away with thousands of small potato budget lines items, but don't want to touch any of their damned sacred cows that pay THEM and their friends dividends in one way or another.
They could do away with some of their "authorities" and save billions. If they want to cut a budget item, shut down the barge canal. All the marinas and canal side shops in the world aren't going to bring that many tourism dollars to the area. Cut some jobs from places like the NYS Power Authority. It is a necessary item to have, but they don't need all the top heavy management and high dollar infrastructure such as their offices in NYC and Albany, as well as their high paid execs at every facility across the state. Cut out some of the land purchases in the Adirondacks. The state does not need to OWN the entire mountain range in order to preserve it. All they need is conservation laws that control the development. I lived in the adirondack park and the laws that govern the park can govern quite well without the state OWNING so much of the land and the lakeshores.
When they do away with the recreational opportunities and the historic and cultural sites in Central NY, they might as well shut off the lights and forget the area exists, because it will be like pulling the plug on the respirator that makes the area breathe.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 21, 2010 17:55:15 GMT -5
Bobbbiez, I'm surprised you feel that way about our war dead. Dave, it has nothing to do at all with how I feel about our war dead. It does have everything to do with the lack of interest the public is exhibiting. I do drive by there on a regular basis and have witnessed the lack of interest in people visiting the Oriskany Monument, so why keep the whole grounds open. There are two grounds, parts, of the Oriskany Monument. The main one closes at dusk while the other is always open if people want to pay their respect. Same goes for Verona Beach State Park. There are plenty of swimming areas and camping grounds on the Sylvan Beach side that are owned by private citizens who can benefit from the closing of the State park, so why keep the State park open? I would rather see the private citizen make a profit if the State park is not bringing in the revenue.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 21, 2010 19:22:42 GMT -5
I have to disagree with ya Sunshine. There are way too many other "porky" BS spending packages and contracts that are given to "friends of Albany" in turn for campaign funding and voter support. NY State has enough crooked and corrupt crap going on that if they were to simply clean it up they would have a budget that would work.
Closing historic sites in an area steeped so deeply in history is a real shame. Closing state parks, which are the least expensive venues for the average family to utilize for camping and swimming, is a sincere slap in the face to those that pay the taxes out of middle income paychecks.
First they tax all the industry out of the area, then they want to take away any educational or recreational opportunities of those people tough enough to have stayed in the area.
I have always purported that I "Can't wait to come home". Well that is rapidly changing. I still want to come home, simply because it IS home, and I don't want to be buried beneath the red clay mud of Tennessee. I can't say as "I can't wait" anymore. The state and the region that I always loved, and returned to from no matter where I was in the world, is circling the drain, due to the corrupt politics and high taxes. While I love the area, I am DREADING the costs involved with returning to, and living in the area. I will be damned if I want my hard earned pension spent on a blind thief and his crooked cronies, or the "undertaker" and Angelo's half baked schemes.
Let's see this spring, where the street repair funding goes. Will Roefaro pave the potholed streets so badly in need of paving in Corn Hill, or will he pave Armory Drive, Pond Lane, and everything and anything in the high rent districts south and east of Mohawk St and Eagle St? Will he put some money in the programs and projects to benefit the poverty level neighborhoods, and middle class neighborhoods, or will he only finance the projects that benefit his patrons and family, as he has done so far in his administration?
Will your county goverment continue to fund their friends and cronies at Edge, and pour money into the county airport at Griffiss, and contracts with and for the Insight House, or will they take an objective look, and start cutting some of the crap from the budget and make some more sensible investments with your tax money?
NY State needs to be flushed like a great big toilet, cleaned with a stiff brush and lysol, and then shined up and remarketed without the corrupt and disgusting scum that has governed it for the last couple of decades. New York state is one of the most beautiful places in the USA, but the people that are running it are like scabs on it's butt.
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Post by denise on Feb 21, 2010 19:36:48 GMT -5
I see state campgrounds as wonderful places for family vacations. Not everyone can afford Disney World. My parents certainly could not. Instead we went camping (in a tent) several times during the summer. My father had a small motorboat; he pack all of our camping gear, bicycles and miscellaneous stuff into the boat. Off we'd go. All different places--Thousand Islands, Adirondacks, Western New York, Catskills, Southern Tier. It was a lot of fun and a lot of good memories.
Why close campgrounds and historic sites when it isn't going to even make a 1% difference in the budget???
For the NYS resident, taxes and expenses keep going up, up, up and residents are seeing less, less, less. Personally, my husband and I have had enough and hope to move out of state later this year. If I'm still in NYS when November elections roll around, I'll vote for anyone but Paterson. He's truly an idiot.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 21, 2010 20:38:39 GMT -5
Exactly Denise. I grew up with the same memories. We would load the family station wagon, pack a cooler full of hotdogs and burgers, eggs and bacon, and the old umbrella tent with the side rooms, and off we went for a weekend of family fun for the low price of 5 or 6 bucks a night back in the 50's and 60's. A family can still camp at a state site for about $20 a night as far as I know. We swam, fished, hiked, sat around the campfire, played with other kids and met new friends, all at a state park for a very minimal price.
To deprive New Yorkers and others of those inexpensive recreational oppurtunities and to close and leave to run down, all those wonderful historic sites like the Herkimer Home is criminal. Those places cannot be replaced and will never be restored to greatness again if they are closed and boarded up. It will be history left to rot and fall down. I think the capital building in Albany should be shuttered and closed down before they close the state parks and General Herkimer's home. THAT would save untold millions by itself.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 21, 2010 21:52:08 GMT -5
Bobbbiez, I'm surprised you feel that way about our war dead. Dave, it has nothing to do at all with how I feel about our war dead. It does have everything to do with the lack of interest the public is exhibiting. I have never considered Oriskany Monument a tourist destination. Or even a place of much interest, except to those of us who enjoy history. So I've never had any more expectation of seeing crowds there than I have in St. Agnes Cemetery, milling around Fireman O'Hanlon's monument. Since my father took me to see the tall obelisk more than a half century ago, I've seen it as a memorial ... a cemetery, even if there are no bodies buried under the grass. So I guess we see the place differently. Since the monument is within the city boundaries of Rome, I believe, maybe Rome will see fit to take over its maintenance. Certainly we should honor the men who lost their lives fighting "the bloodiest battle of the Revolution." (Thank you Mrs. Mecomber for the picture, even though you don't know I stole it!)
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 21, 2010 22:07:52 GMT -5
Clipper, I'm sure you know how much we utilized camping raising our five kids. There wasn't too much more we could afford besides that. Actually, we couldn't even afford the entrance fee to the campgrounds, so we took our kids camping in the woods. The woods are free. When we did manage to utilize the State parks there were plenty around to go to as there are at present. Very seldom were we able to get into Verona's park being it is very small and you had to make reservations way ahead of time to get a spot and that was a cost we could not afford. I do remember camping there twice in our camping days and the beach was closed because they did not have a life guard available, so we took the kids over the bridge to swim at Sylvan's beach where there was a life guard. I'm sure that is one of the reasons why closing Verona is being considered, especially when you have the same offered a few miles down the road in Sylvan beach. I'm not one to take away enjoyment from anyone, but when it comes to closing a few State parks I see no harm in that considering we have so many more in the area to utilize. The woods are still free. We have to start somewhere in saving.
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Post by denise on Feb 21, 2010 22:36:52 GMT -5
I think the Governor should start making cuts from the top. Cut his salary, cut his benefits. I'm sure he's given a residence to live in while he's Governor. Let him go live in his own house or he can rent a furnished apartment during his term and pay for it out of his own pocket. Cut the salaries of the State Senators and Assemblypeople. Less benefits for them too. Let them eat some of the expenses that they currently get reimbursed for. After all this is implemented, then they can talk to the rest of us about making do with less.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 21, 2010 22:45:43 GMT -5
Dave, the Oriskany Battle Field is both to many including myself. It is utilized as a tourist site as well as a time to reflect on the battle and the lives lost there. Every year they have a reenactment of the Battle on the grounds which use to draw many of the locals and many tourists, but I'm afraid that has died down. For those that want to give their respect there is the other part of the field with another plague in memory which is open for those to sit quietly and mourn the loss of brave lives. That is where I have taken my grandsons and out of town visitors mainly because the main grounds closes early and is gated off. Other then not being able to sign the quest book on the main grounds that is a place where one can show their respect.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 21, 2010 22:49:50 GMT -5
I think the Governor should start making cuts from the top. Cut his salary, cut his benefits. I'm sure he's given a residence to live in while he's Governor. Let him go live in his own house or he can rent a furnished apartment during his term and pay for it out of his own pocket. Cut the salaries of the State Senators and Assemblypeople. Less benefits for them too. Let them eat some of the expenses that they currently get reimbursed for. After all this is implemented, then they can talk to the rest of us about making do with less. Denise, I fully agree but don't see that as a reality whether it be on the local levels or higher up. Just ain't going to happen.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 21, 2010 22:56:42 GMT -5
I now what you are saying bobbbiez about having to start someplace, but let them start with the support of the great artist series, or the opera houses. Those are very important cultural activities that have become too damned expensive for anyone but the rich to afford the admissons to the art shows and concerts. Lets hit the recreational activity of the rich for a change. Did you see in there where they were closing any of the state run golf courses like Green Lakes? Hell no. That might effect a politician wanting to shoot eighteen holes with his campaign contributors or other state cronies. Just close the swimming pools and such and take it out of the hides of the working class again. It sucks, and the savings are a drop in the bucket compared to what is needed. Mark my words. The parks will be closed and the taxes still will go up to provide for all the porky crap that the reps like to take home to their districts in order to garner votes. NOTHING will effect the ones that are proposing the cuts. They will make sure of that.
How about a whole new concept in education. Let parents get their own damned kids to school like they used to, instead of having a bus for every kid in the district that stops at the end of every driveway. Let the little buggers walk to school if they live within a mile of the school, and let the parents get them there if they don't. We had no school bus to get us to Seymour when I lived on Keyes Road. We took the city bus or walked. There were buses for the little kids, but the mommy's had to get their lazy asses out of bed and go to the bus stop with the kids because the bus only stopped in a few choice places where kids were forced to gather to catch it. Look at the ridiculous rates they pay to have Birnie Bus and others carry the lazy little buggers to school. Look at the savings just to the environment in the decrease in diesel fumes and fuel consumption. Cut out teachers "aids". What the hell, can't the teacher teach the class without a babysitter to assist her? I went to a two room school in Barneveld where one teacher taught six grades all by herself, including physical ed, music and art.
Quit spending money on "Studies of ways to save money". Just save the cost of the study instead. Stop giving tax incentives to people like the crooks that have the city on the hook for the Hotel Utica loans. Let business men come up with their own financing and keep my tax money out of it. If they can't afford to do business, why do we think they will be successful attempting it at no risk to themselves with OUR money instead of their own?
Quit spending money to "make downtown more desireable" when NOBODY wants to go downtown to do business any more. I guess downtown would evolve into all office space or low cost housing if left to it's own. I am sure that it would not simply fall down. It would be taken over by ethnic groups that would live and do business in their little corners of the city and downtown. They probably would do a better job of bringing downtown back naturally than all the wasted planning money has been able to do in the last three decades.
Fire all the corrupt and self indulgent groups like EDGE, and let some educated, experienced, retired executives volunteer to do the work of promoting the area, instead of giving those foxes the key to the henhouse and letting them dole out contracts and federal moneys to their favorite locals and favorite programs. Rome has been the only one to benefit from ANY of that crap and the whole county pays for it.
Cut some of the welfare benefits and some of the local lazies will move back to NYC or move somewhere else, that pays better for being a bum. Pass "Workfare" laws and put them to work doing public service jobs and temp work.
Lots of places to save other than taking from the poor and preserving for the rich.
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Post by Ralph on Feb 21, 2010 23:58:50 GMT -5
Beautiful house........historically restored, pool, greenhouses, gardens, tennis court, security.....you name it. Gotta love it.
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