Family Court Judges need to keep children safe

[Swimmy]

Family Court Judges need to keep children safe

First, if oc dss policy is anything close to bc policy, then damn this writer for blaming the judges! In Broome County, where a relative is willing to step in and take care of the children, the department of social services steps down and out of the way. It is a STUPID policy. If the department has grave concerns, then they better do their jobs and take care of the children.

Second, this writer had better be fired, if she's a caseworker. HOW DARE SHE REVEAL ACTUAL NAMES! Family court cases are unique when compared to other civil or criminal cases. Party names are kept confidential from the public. Any public court decision based on family law uses initials. There is no need to specifically name and single out a particular individual!

I'd go on, but I'll just ramble. I'm done venting. It just pisses me off when cps caseworkers flounder their responsibilities and then have the balls to blame the judge for their own misdeeds!

[corner]

we have some pretty incompetent jusges in oc it started when bernie romano was a family court judge and issues re linda fatata sullivan and her husbands love child wiith another woman and joan tuechert who is a man hater from the get go and very unscrupulous in her deallings

[denise]

The writer only mentioned Leeann Wimmers. She's the girl that's going to jail for killing her first child, and now the powers that be are trying to figure out what to do with the child she is currently pregnant with. I see nothing wrong with the writer mentioning her, and I agree with every word the writer said.

[lucy]

Swimmy the person mentioned in that article was all over the news paper for killing her baby. Her lawyer put all her personal information in an article to state her side of the story. The girl mentioned in that article also stated from her lawyer was failed from the system. It is a very sad story. I have to say I agree 100 percent with the person that wrote it. There is a flaw in the system, but I wouldn't blame all judges for this flaw.

[Swimmy]

So then dss filed a petition to terminate her parental rights? Or filed a neglect petition?

[corner]

well for the amount of time she will be in prison somebody else will raise her child upon birth and if hse does have munchousens by proxy then any child will be in danger that she has i agree that somebody besides her obviously dysfuntional mother should raise the baby i'm also thinking this should be a test case for mandatory tubal ligation

[Swimmy]

I ask because unless it's before the judge to strip the mother of her child, the judge is powerless. A judge cannot simply order someone lose their child, regardless how common sense it may be unless there is a petition before the judge asking for that relief. So, unless cps does its job in the first place, pretty stupid to blame the judges for something they don't have jurisdiction over at this point in time.

[lucy]

Ok, I understand now. So lets say a baby is positive for crack the state doesn't automatically take that baby and any other children away from the mother?

[stoney]

I don't know where that writer was coming from in that letter. I highly doubt she is a DSS worker. Wimmers isn't going to be able to raise her child since she will be in prison so it's a moot point anyway.

[stoney]

I just looked the writer up; she doesn't work for the county.

seethroughny.net/Payrolls/tabid/55/Default.aspx

[bobbbiez]

Swimmy, I agree with you completely. It is not the job of a judge to determine where a child should be placed. There are far too many cases of neglect, abuse and murders of children happening locally and nationwide. Someone is not doing their jobs properly and it's not the courts in these cases.
That responsibility falls in the hands of the people who are suppose to keep track of such reports but way too often those reports are ignored until it's too late for the child. After the fact, sadly after the death of a child, it becomes public knowledge that someone knew of the child's dangerous living conditions and didn't act on it quickly enough.

How many children have to die before the finger is pointed at the right departments.

[stoney]

And when are those departments going to get the money they need in order to hire enough qualified people so that they don't lose good workers to 'burn-out'

[bobbbiez]

Dec 30, 2009 11:46:18 GMT -5 @stoney said:

And when are those departments going to get the money they need in order to hire enough qualified people so that they don't lose good workers to 'burn-out'

Stoney, I'm not buying that. I don't think it's a question of hiring more qualified people. It's the qualified people they already have to just do their jobs and do them well for the best welfare of the children they are suppose to be protecting.

[Swimmy]

Dec 30, 2009 11:25:56 GMT -5 lucy said:

Ok, I understand now. So lets say a baby is positive for crack the state doesn't automatically take that baby and any other children away from the mother?

The may not deprive its citizens of life, liberty, or property without due process.

14th Amendment.

It is settled law that a biological parent has a fundamental right (requires highest scrutiny when the right is infringed) to the care, custody, and control of their children. In other words, the state must have a compelling interest in attempting to infringe on a parent's right and the means to achieve that interest are narrowly tailored.

I'm not disputing the state's right to remove a child. The background is to explain why a judge just can't willy nilly order the state to take a child out of a dangerous environment without the state first applying to the court, and giving notice to the parents. If an emergency exists, the state has to apply for emergency relief, which is almost always granted (at least here in broome county). If the state does not make the application for such relif, or to terminate a parent's right, the judge canNOT do a thing! And in Broome County, the dss backs down whenever a "qualified" alternative is willing to petition the court for custody. Many times, when the parents refuse to agree to the alternative person, that alternative person must establish extraordinary circumstances, a high burden to meet without DSS assistance for evidence. And unless DSS is involved, the caseworkers do their damnedest to avoid being subpoenaed in those circumstances. So the blame needs to be placed where it belongs.

That is not to say that the judges are totally scott-free. They are human and fallible. But they can only make decisions based on what evidence is presented before them, nothing more. So if the attorneys for DSS fail to properly present their case, the judge may have no choice but to make a certain decision.

[Swimmy]

Dec 30, 2009 11:42:46 GMT -5 bobbbiez said:

Swimmy, I agree with you completely. It is not the job of a judge to determine where a child should be placed. There are far too many cases of neglect, abuse and murders of children happening locally and nationwide. Someone is not doing their jobs properly and it's not the courts in these cases.
That responsibility falls in the hands of the people who are suppose to keep track of such reports but way too often those reports are ignored until it's too late for the child. After the fact, sadly after the death of a child, it becomes public knowledge that someone knew of the child's dangerous living conditions and didn't act on it quickly enough.

How many children have to die before the finger is pointed at the right departments.

I just had a case where mom and dad are drug addicts and left their 6-month old daughter unattended while they hosted a vicodin and vodka party. DSS came in and removed the child with parental consent, but when my clients came into the picture petitioning for custody, DSS stepped down. If the parents didn't agree to the order we proposed, it would be very difficult for me to convince a judge without DSS's cooperation, which was lacking, to order the parents to have drug and mental health evaluations, attend parenting classes, and successfully complete rehab programs. Had DSS stayed involved, it would have been easier. Fortunately, the great-grandparents still have considerable influence over the parents and convinced them to agree with our offer. But that's a rare exception to the norm.