"Bad Romance"

[jon hynes]

Dec 23, 2009 21:02:23 GMT -5 Clipper said:

I remember the public johns that used to be on Elizabeth St. They were a regular stop on the walk to Baggs Square from UFA. We would stop at the Hunts Point Diner for a couple of cups of coffee, and then lighten our load by emptying our tanks before we made the trek to N Utica. There used to be a diner in front of where the regional market is, near the DPW garage. That was often the second coffee stop on especially cold days.

[dgriffin]

Chris, I can't remember how far it was from Genesee St. ... not very far, really .... but the public pooper was on the right side of the street as you walked east on Elizabeth St. after passing the length of Grace Church. I think it was right after Grace and before Charlotte.

[dgriffin]

Yaeaaeea, Jon! That's it!

[dgriffin]

Clipper or anyone. Where was the Hunts Point Diner? I remember the name, but can't place it. I must have been in there.

[jon hynes]

Dec 24, 2009 8:30:03 GMT -5 @dgriffin said:

Chris, I can't remember how far it was from Genesee St. ... not very far, really .... but the public pooper was on the right side of the street as you walked east on Elizabeth St. after passing the length of Grace Church. I think it was right after Grace and before Charlotte.

I remember it being on the other side of the street to the right of the corner building at the dogleg.
Pretty sure the toilets were underground and you had to descend a stairway to get to them.

[Clipper]

You are right Dave. They were on the North side of the street, directly behind Neisner's or Kresge's, I always mix the two up in my mind when I try to remember which was on that corner, a few doors up from Woolworth's.

The Hunt's Point Diner was on Charlotte St, across from the court house. It was on the west side of Charlotte, about mid block. Maybe 50 yards up from Elizabeth St. It was a little trolley car diner, painted white with black trim. I can still picture the skinny man that ran it, wearing his soiled apron and a paper hat, drawing us a cup of coffee from the old fashioned coffee urn with the gas burner under it. I remember home made soup there also, with oyster crackers. It was just one of the wonderful little diners and coffee shops that dotted the landscape back then. Wanda' Coffee Shop, Joe's Sugar Bowl, OK Lunch, Maxwell House, and on and on. There were wonderful little coffee shops and luncheonettes on every block in those days.

It was a wonderful and prosperous time in Utica. Each neighborhood had their own little business district. Varick St., Columbia Square, Lincoln Ave, the Highlands, James St and on and on. Everyone could live and thrive within a couple of blocks of home. There were mom and pop grocery stores, meat markets, bakeries, and funeral homes. You could live and die and never have to move more than a couple of blocks. Movie theaters were also abundant. I could name about a dozen if I stop and think and that would not cover them all.

I love it when we go back in time to remember things like the public toilets or anything else that carries us back there to reminisce.

If those public toilets were still open today, they would be infested with drug dealers and addicts or perverts looking for sex. Times have certainly changed.

[Clipper]

If I remember correctly, the next building to the east from the public toilets was the "Trade School". I never knew anyone that attended that school, so I can't say for sure what the curriculum was, but I remember the city school district ran it and it was called the trade school. The district offices ended up there eventually I think.

[stoney]

Wow! Talk about a segue!!

[jon hynes]

Dec 24, 2009 11:58:34 GMT -5 Clipper said:

If I remember correctly, the next building to the east from the public toilets was the "Trade School". I never knew anyone that attended that school, so I can't say for sure what the curriculum was, but I remember the city school district ran it and it was called the trade school. The district offices ended up there eventually I think.

Yes it was something the school teachers always used to threaten us with. 'What do you want to do, grow up to be, a ditch digger?' or worse to hear about the misbehaved boy that had been sent to Trade School as a last resource punishment.

George Nole was paying a ditch digger 4 times what a Technician at G.E. was being paid in the early 60's.

I seem to remember the Elizabeth Street Trade School building being a white brick building.

Now there's BOCES that has replaced the trade schools.

[jon hynes]

Dec 24, 2009 11:53:56 GMT -5 Clipper said:

The Hunt's Point Diner was on Charlotte St, across from the court house. It was on the west side of Charlotte, about mid block. Maybe 50 yards up from Elizabeth St. It was a little trolley car diner, painted white with black trim.

[Clipper]

Stoney, you are about 10yrs or so younger than I am, but you must have some wonderful memories of Utica when it was in it's heyday. Industry was booming, everyone was employed, the stores were busy, downtown was a destination instead of a place to drive "thru" on your way to the mall.

It is those memories that make Utica "my hometown" and those memories that continue to draw me back there. I still hold hope for a revitalization of the city to a certain point. Cities in the NE will never be what they used to be, and will never be what cities in the South and the West are.

The region thrived on heavy industry and mills of all sorts. Those days are over and the rust belt cities have fallen behind in the race to attract new industry. Taxes and lack of modern infrastructure have hurt the area terribly.

While the core of the city has deteriorated, the same city I grew up in still blooms on the outer edges. I still enjoy going to east Utica for italian food at O'scuinizzo's or the Chesterfield. I still go to West Utica to Tony Sparagna's and the Pulaski Meat Market. Chanatry's and other stores still draw people into the city.

I think eventually we will see Bleecker St and Genessee St as well as some area such as Oneida Square, rebound and evolve. The more run down neighborhoods will eventually deteriorate to a point where houses have to be replaced and hopefully neighborhoods will rebound to a certain extent.

Utica will never die. Utica will always be HOME to me, and I long to be there again. The whole area is beautiful and fun. You don't know what you have until you leave it and find that every region has it's problems.
The only disadvantage to that area is the politics, and eventually maybe the voters will wake up and change that also.

[Clipper]

John, if I remember correctly, the Hunt's Point would have been about where the white car is parked on Charlotte St. next to the parking lot. It used to set next door to the building that held the Tiki Toi Chinese place in later years.

[stoney]

Dec 24, 2009 13:18:16 GMT -5 Clipper said:

Stoney, you are about 10yrs or so younger than I am, but you must have some wonderful memories of Utica when it was in it's heyday. Industry was booming, everyone was employed, the stores were busy, downtown was a destination instead of a place to drive "thru" on your way to the mall.

It is those memories that make Utica "my hometown" and those memories that continue to draw me back there. I still hold hope for a revitalization of the city to a certain point. Cities in the NE will never be what they used to be, and will never be what cities in the South and the West are.

The region thrived on heavy industry and mills of all sorts. Those days are over and the rust belt cities have fallen behind in the race to attract new industry. Taxes and lack of modern infrastructure have hurt the area terribly.

While the core of the city has deteriorated, the same city I grew up in still blooms on the outer edges. I still enjoy going to east Utica for italian food at O'scuinizzo's or the Chesterfield. I still go to West Utica to Tony Sparagna's and the Pulaski Meat Market. Chanatry's and other stores still draw people into the city.

I think eventually we will see Bleecker St and Genessee St as well as some area such as Oneida Square, rebound and evolve. The more run down neighborhoods will eventually deteriorate to a point where houses have to be replaced and hopefully neighborhoods will rebound to a certain extent.

Utica will never die. Utica will always be HOME to me, and I long to be there again. The whole area is beautiful and fun. You don't know what you have until you leave it and find that every region has it's problems.
The only disadvantage to that area is the politics, and eventually maybe the voters will wake up and change that also.

Yes, I remember the downtown streets were totally packed on Saturdays with all sorts of weird people, to the point where there had to be a cop at the major crosswalks.

I worked at Joseph & Feiss after I graduated from High School for 2 years before I went to college. It was a Union mill & the pay was fantastic. My mother was the president of the union (ACTW). Downtown was just bustling & bursting with people. I used to walk from N. Utica over that old bridge to downtown, & we could see the train tracks though the holes, that's how deteriorated it was.

[kit]

Whoever said, "You can never go back" was right. It will never be the same as what's in our minds. I spent my early childhood in Frankfort NY and have some distinct memories of 'what' and 'where' and 'who' from that time. I went back 2 years ago and everything had changed. This building has been torn down or burned in a fire... that store isn't there any more... the name of that street has now been changed and the house numbers are different and have 4 digits instead of 3. This or that family either died off or moved away a long time ago. The school I went to, and fondly remember, is now an apartment building and where I used to play is a big arterial which interrups the street where I walked 2 miles each way to school in the 1st through 3rd grades. My dad's single-bay gas station was converted to a warehouse then later torn down and is now a parking lot. Progress? I suppose so. But it's such a disappointment to my memory.

I fear that Utica and so many other towns and cities are no different. Our vivid memories are what make us appreciate our old neighborhoods and each other and the way things used to be. I'm old enough now to have seen 2 generations grow up and die, wishing that things would change back to what they used to be, but to no avail. That's why the nostgalgic parts of Clipper's Busy Corner are so important to me. Although I've never lived in Utica proper, I've always lived near it and your descriptions of how things used to be trigger similar memories for me. And it's comforting to this old coot.

Thanks to everyone who shares these important reflections.

[dgriffin]

Frankfort is/was an interesting town. I remember the farm implement factories, quite a metal manufacturing place. We had relatives in Ilion (I think ... fertile ground for another story) and often drove through Frankfort in the 50's. And would've in the 40's had we had a car.

Everything has changed, there and in Utica, as you point out, Kit. But you can imagine the changes someone our age saw as he stood on the corner of east Main and Litchfield Streets in the 1950's. If he had been sleeping, ala Rip Van Winkle, his first thought might have been, "Where are the horses?"