Airport Overshoot Prompts Fatigue Probe

[dgriffin]

Wall Street Journal


Airport Overshoot Prompts Pilot-Fatigue Probe


A Northwest Airlines flight approaching Minneapolis Wednesday night lost contact with controllers for more than an hour and overshot its destination by about 150 miles before circling back to land. Federal safety regulators are investigating the incident as a possible case of pilots nodding off, according to government and airline-industry officials familiar with the matter.

Controllers at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport were able to re-establish contact with the Airbus A320, after a one hour and 18 minute lapse, before the plane, flight 188 en route from San Diego, landed safely and without injuries to the 147 passengers, according to a statement from the National Transportation Safety Board.

The NTSB said controllers lost contact with the aircraft while it was cruising at 37,000 feet, but didn't say how far from the airport the plane was at the time.

The NTSB said the pilots were interviewed after landing by Federal Bureau of Investigation agents and airport police. The pilots told law- enforcement officials they had been engaged in a "heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness," according to the NTSB. The Federal Aviation Administration is also investigating the incident.

CONTINUED AT:

online.wsj.com/article/SB125623517851801783.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories

[clarencebunsen]

The top comment I read at the Minneapolis Star & Tribune web site.
"Were they in a heated discussion about termination policy?"

[dgriffin]

Ya know, this story would be more believable if the pilots lost track of the time for 5, even ten, minutes, and the 150 mile overshoot was a result of them not being able to immediately swing around and go back to Minneapolis (sort of like missing an exit on the Thruway.) But it's unclear exactly how long their brains were off line. Certainly a knowledgeable flight attendant or even a passenger would have realized they were way overdue and brought it up. And did they turn off their radios? I'm not at all surprised the FBI, airport police, FAA, NTSB and the producers of World's Most Dangerous Police Videos want to interview the crew. Something happened up there! Or am I watching too much Fox News?

[clarencebunsen]

From the tracker I saw they flew almost to Green Bay. Luckily they were in a low traffic area. If they had been traveling SE instead of NE they would have been in the Minneapolis/Chicago traffic.

[dgriffin]

"Safety investigators said the plane had an older model cockpit voice recorder that records only 30 minutes at a time, according to the Associated Press. It's likely the voice recorder captured only the last 30 minutes of the flight -- much of that time after pilots had realized their error and turned the plane back. Newer records are two hours long."
- Wall Street Journal, October 23, 2009
online.wsj.com/article/SB125631959748904273.html


Ah, maybe that's why they were out of contact so long and strayed so far. Something happened they wanted kept hidden. They had to fly long enough for the Cockpit Voice Recorder to run out so that when they landed nothing of it was on the recorder. Surely anticipating the length of the "gap" and the seriousness of missing a destination by 150 miles, and not answering the ATC, and possibly being intercepted by a squadron of fighter jets, whatever happened must have been pretty serious.

Or am I watching too much Fox News? (Despite the advice of my President.)

I haven't seen any passenger interviews yet. Has anyone?

[dgriffin]

"Sitting in the sixth row of Northwest Airlines Flight 188, Amy Kieffer thought her flight was running late -- then came a strange announcement from the cockpit.

"A couple of people I overheard said I thought we were landing at 8 or 8:15," Kieffer said. "That was where it was a little bit different. The captain came on and said after some back and forth bickering, we should be landing in 15 to 20 minutes."

When NWA Flight 188 finally landed at Twin Cities International , an hour and 15 minutes late, the 144 passengers onboard realized it was too late.

"Two minutes later (we were) asked to take our seats again,": Kieffer said. "We noticed there was security at the front of the plane."

Airport police at the FBI were waiting. According to federal investigators, the crew "stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness."

www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/northwest_flight_188_misses_minneapolis_airport_passenger_story

[dgriffin]

Click for video at this url:

www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/northwest_flight_188_misses_minneapolis_airport_passenger_story

[dgriffin]

That was Amy, above. Here is Lonnie:

"A passenger on the flight, Lonnie Heidtke of Chippewa Falls, Wis., said the pilot announced about 8:30 p.m. that "we've been put into a holding pattern."

The flight was supposed to arrive at 8 p.m. Heidtke, who was traveling on business and working on his computer, wasn't paying much attention to time.

"We were flying in circles somewhere," he said.

The plane landed safely just
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after 9 p.m. in the Twin Cities. When it pulled up to the gate, "everybody stood up and got ready to exit," Heidtke said. "The flight attendant said, 'Everybody sit back down please.' "

Airport police boarded the plane to make sure the loss of radio contact wasn't the result of criminal activity, said Patrick Hogan, an airport spokesman.

The FAA notified the military, which put Air National Guard fighter jets on alert at two locations, the Associated Press reported. As many as four planes could have been scrambled, but none took to the air. "

www.twincities.com/ci_13622530?IADID=Search-www.twincities.com-www.twincities.com

[dgriffin]

Newser) – The passengers aboard the Northwest flight that overshot the Minneapolis airport by 150 miles—possibly while the pilots napped—didn't have a clue anything was amiss beyond a nagging sense that the flight was taking a long time. One tells the Star Tribune that he asked about it, and a flight attendant returned 10 minutes later with the puzzling reply, "I have no idea when we're going to get to the terminal.""

www.newser.com/story/72432/flight-attendant-i-have-no-idea-when-were-landing.html

[dgriffin]

I am still intrigued by this story. Here is the timeline for the flight:
wcco.com/wireapnewsmn/Timeline.of.Northwest.2.1267207.html

Heard an interview of a former airline pilot today on CNN (with Blitz Woofer.) The expert pointed out that not long after the plane was last in contact with the Air Traffic Controller, the aircraft would have begun to drop in altitude on its approach to the Twin Cities. It didn't lose altitude, and beyond the lack of radio contact, at that point the ATC would have become suspicious, quite some time before the plane was scheduled to land. Therefore, when Blitz asked if the expert was surprised that a squadron of fighter jets was waiting to take off and intercept the flight, the expert said, "What surprised me was that they DID NOT launch." He went on to say that although he was not familiar with Minneapolis security procedures, his experience indicated the fighters would have certainly been in the air by the time the ATC re-established contact. But for some reason, they were not.

There's more to come in this story.

[dgriffin]

"Meanwhile, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) is reviewing procedures for launching fighter jets to track potentially hijacked or suspicious aircraft. This comes in the wake of a potential delay by the Federal Aviation Administration in notifying the military about the Northwest Airlines flight.

A senior U.S. official confirmed the review to CNN on Friday, but declined to be identified because both the military and FAA are reviewing the entire matter, including the timeline in which the FAA notified the U.S. military of a potential problem with the flight. The official is directly familiar with the timeline of the event.

The official confirmed that the FAA's request to NORAD for U.S. military involvement came after the plane passed Minneapolis. NORAD scrambled fighter jets at two locations. But as they approached the runway for takeoff, the FAA reported being back in contact with the Northwest flight. Fighter jets remained on the ground at that point.

"My real question is why we did not know of the 'radio out' situation from the FAA sooner -- the FAA is also looking into that," the official told CNN.

Since the September, 11, 2001, attacks, NORAD has regularly launched fighter jets to track aircraft in unusual situations, such as when they deviate from flight plans, lose radio contact or enter restricted airspace. According to a second defense official, NORAD is in constant contact with the FAA so it can respond when situations arise."

from article published on CNN's website:
www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/25/airliner.fly.by/index.html

[Ralph]

Not for nothing, but that plane should have had fighter escorts by the time it got to MSP.
And without an answer to their challenge, should have been a cinder falling out of the sky within the next 30 minutes.

This is scary to say the least.

[chris]

Just read that the two pilots said they were using their laptops. What!!!!!!!!!! Kind of reminds me of these people that drive talking or texting on their cell phones.

[dgriffin]

FAA revokes licenses of wayward Northwest pilots


WASHINGTON — The Federal Aviation Administration on Tuesday revoked the licenses of the two Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles.

The pilots, who were out of communications with air traffic controllers for 91 minutes, violated numerous federal safety regulations in the incident last Wednesday night, the FAA said in a statement. The violations included failing to comply with air traffic control instructions and clearances and operating carelessly and recklessly, the agency said.

"You engaged in conduct that put your passengers and your crew in serious jeopardy," FAA regional counsel Eddie Thomas said in a letter to Cheney. Northwest Flight 188 was not in communications with controllers or the airline dispatchers "while you were on a frolic of your own. ... This is a total dereliction and disregard for your duties."

Frolic? This is getting interesting!


www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hSofDoT5LyX3TkJEaFHEJPNHSALAD9BJO85O0

[Clipper]

Hmmm. Facebook strikes again. They were playing Zinga Poker on their laptops. Either that or they happened upon Clipper's Corner, and got stuck trying to finish one of my super long posts before they landed.LOL!