On Genesee Hill, QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS

[dgriffin]

Some background.

Miller, Rutger Bleecker (1805-1877) — also known as Rutger B. Miller — of Oneida County, N.Y. Born in New York, 1805. Son of Morris Smith Miller. Democrat. Member of New York state assembly from Oneida County, 1832; U.S. Representative from New York 17th District, 1836-37. Died in 1877. Interment at Forest Hill Cemetery, Utica, N.Y.

Miller, Morris Smith (1779-1824) — of Utica, Oneida County, N.Y. Born in New York, New York County, N.Y., July 31, 1779. Father of Rutger Bleecker Miller. Lawyer; common pleas court judge in New York, 1810; U.S. Representative from New York 16th District, 1813-15. Died in Utica, Oneida County, N.Y., November 17, 1824. Interment at Albany Rural Cemetery, Menands, N.Y.

* See also: congressional biography.

Wiki entry for Rutger Bleecker Miller:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutger_B._Miller

[fiona]

Thank you Dave, your kind comments mean a lot to me. I have not been able to ascertain where in Whitestown they lived, as the boundaries were quite different then and Whitestown was the county seat. Mary B's maternal grandmaother was Mary Foreman Seymour Miller, married to Rutger B. Miller, son of Judge Morris Miller. She was a direct descendant of Horatio Seymour and her sister Julia was married to Roscoe Conkling.

[fiona]

I don't know, Dave. I havenever heard of the Dudley Triangle nor did I know there was a memorial on the corner of John and Elizabeth St.

[dgriffin]

I've moved the posts regarding MWP, the old Munson Williams Memorial building and the Dudley Triangle building to OLd NEWS.

[dgriffin]

Fiona, received photos. Thanks very much. I found your Mrs. Gorman's on Birdseye. Appropriately, there appears to be a police car out front.





From behind, you can see the odd angle at which a side of the building meets Hotel St.




That makes it easier to identify the building on the 1883 map of Utica.

(Click to enlarge any of these.)






Zooming in closer, there is unfortunately no name associated with the brick building in 1883, but you can read the names of some of the neighbors.






Re faces, that's interesting about the green man on the Obliston.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Man


A Green Man (NOT the one on the Obliston.)

[fiona]

Dave; I made a mistake about the location of Gorman's and Peter Wolff's Imperial Hotel, but let's keep it as it is. There are not many houses at all left on Hotel Street due to urban renewal and, of course, there is nothing on Whitesboro St. I went to the UPL yesterday and after much research got the info. In 1898 Peter Wolff's Imperial Hotel and saloon was located on the corner of Whitesboro and Hotel Street and consisted of his home and his business, 34 to 41 Whitesboro Street, home - 37 W. Boro St. From a picture I recall in the Sat. Globe, part of it, the cafe, is still standing and is now Rockford's Auto. Gorman's lived directly across the road at 36 Whitesboro Street. The husband, James Gorman, was a teamster. In this the reporter for the Globe was correct. Before I can construct a scene I have to do more research. Apparantly, that area was lined with Hotels, saloons, ect, a coal yard was directly next door, The Sat. Evening Globe offices nearby, a few doors away. it was avery tough neighborhood, mostly Irish and a few blocks away, blending into a heavily Jewish neighborhood. the houses were already old when the map you posted was made and I think most of the people had moved on. So, for all practical purposes, let's keep this as Gorman's, OK? I also found a John B. Wood, caterer, living at 43 Seneca Street from 1912 to 1914. This may be him. More research is needed. The Albert was an apt house or hotel at 249 Genesee Street, next to the Masonic Temple. Nothing is there now except the modern offices of ARC. About the chapter headers: That is a good idea. Go ahead and name them. Also, it is OK to put up the letter. I have to ask you...would you be interested in doing the bio's of John and Latcher? We really need a man's point of view and you seem to be more indside the head's of these characters than I am. And we need to choose a photo of John . Also, there is a photo of Latcher in the GF thread. In the mean time I will be working on the street scene. It's a long one and I need some time. All is well and I think the plot line is developing. Now, by seeing things cinematically, do you mean - like a movie?

[fiona]

Dave, i think the corner of the house is cut off in a wierd way because what ever was there was taken down bu urban renewal. Also, it is 106 Hotel Street now, but in 1895 was a different number. For the sake of the story, I don't think that matters. Looking at this house would you say the style is Federalist or later?

[dgriffin]

Federal architecture. I wouldn't say so. To me, federal is half ellipses, the doorways, porticoes, columns.
Take a look here:
jan.ucc.nau.edu/~twp/architecture/federal/

[dgriffin]

I didn't find the hotel or family names on the 1883 map in the vicinity of Whitesboro and Hotel Streets. Re John B. Wood, Seneca St. is the next street west, I think. And if the neighborhood was rough, I wouldn't expect to find John Wood there. What do you think?

I'm now trying to put together a composite map of the area from the NYPL maps. It will be a large file.

[dgriffin]

You can enlarge this map in the normal manner. Or you can copy it to your graphics program (I use Irfanview) and enlarge it quite a bit, since it has good resolution. I composed it from several zoomed-in shots of the 1883 NYPL map of Utica.

Yes, there's a synagogue (labeled "Hebrew Church") on Seneca St. on the map, so one would assume it could be Jewish neighborhood.

Also, 41 Whitesboro St. is just past Seneca on the left heading west on Whitesboro St. It's an unlabeled wood (yellow) house, across the street from the brick residence of Mrs. A. Camp.

(Jon, am I reading those numbers correctly? The numbers IN the street are the house numbers? On other parts of the 1883 map, in addition to those numbers are other numbers written in the plot itself. I don't know what the latter are, unless they indicate a lot number from a large group of properties.)


www.windsweptpress.com/images/gorman neighborhood.jpg[/img]

[dgriffin]

Regarding the bios of John B. Wood or S. Latcher. I had hoped when we began this we would get more participation from folks on this forum, and maybe this would be a good opportunity for anyone who wants to join in on the project.

To recap for those who might be confused by what we're doing, we are trying to produce an iterative (that's sort of like throwing the ball until it goes through the hoop) story about the Genesee Flats fire and the lives it affected. Fiona and I have given this a good start and tried to set some of the foundations in place for the story. I think we'd like to get the story down before we decide (for sure, anyway) whether it gets told as a short story, a novel, a screenplay or a stage play. Actually, I think the latter or even the second to last would be a lot of fun, even if not Oscar material.

Much of the information about the characters comes from the research about the fire done by Jon and myself over the past year, as an addition to the encyclopedic amount of information gathered by Fiona over the past decade. We've become enchanted by some of the real life characters, and we've invented a believable fictional character named Annie Sullivan. (There was an Annie Sullivan in Utica at that time, but our Annie Sullivan is almost wholly fictional.)

Anyway, if you (plural) have been following this thread and would like to add your two cents with anything from an idea to a full blown written scene ... or artwork .... or bios .... please feel free to do so.
Ya know? The more the merrier.

[fiona]

Dave: 1883 is too early for these persons to be in these homes and so they do not appear on the map. The Gormans do not go into that house until 1897, but I have told you I have jogged the time frame a bit to make it fit with the story. Peter Wolff's establishment was there by 1895, according to he directories. Prior to that he and his family were in Rome NY and were literally " run out of town on a rail" for prostitution and other crimes. Thus they came and set up shop in Utica. Then the Gorman's came to the street. I have not read all there is to read on this crime, but it occurs to me the Gorman's may have been working alongside the Wolff's. In other words they formed a criminal gang such as it is. About Mr Wood on seneca Street in 1912- perhaps the neighborhood changed again- don't forget that a lot of Lafayette Street was torn down around 1910 and in 1912, the New Hotel Utica Opened and the area was on an upgrade. About forum participation - I understand how you feel, but perhaps people are just burnt out on our interests. We can do a great job ourselves.

[Clipper]

As late as my childhood, there was a strong jewish presence in the area of Liberty, Whitesboro, Seneca, Broadway, Washington, and Hotel. That area was home to many Jewish businesses and a synagogue as late as the 50's if I am not mistaken. I could be wrong.

[fiona]

Dave, I put J.F. Seymour, 36 Hotel Street, ( Gorman's in 1898 ) into the search engine just for the heck of it and guess what popped up: A Sketch of Old Utica by Miss Blandina Dudley Miller! !!!!! In it is a description of the house and , well, her mother WAS a Seymour... I will have to read the whole thing tonite, unless you get to it first. This project is getting stranger and stranger with all of it's links, switchbacks and allusions. Clipper, yes , that area was heavily Jewish, totally that and Afro American by the 50's. then the Jews began the inevitable trek uptown and the area was left to the blacks and now there is nothing there at all, all the blacks have moved uptown and all the Jews are gone.

[dgriffin]

American Telegraph Instrument Makers, 1837-1900
by Roger W. Reinke



Telegraph keys, sounders and relays:


Chubbuck, A.S., Hotel St., Utica, N.Y., 1852-69, Western Union supplier.

Utica Fire Alarm Telegraph Co., 106-108 Liberty St.m Utica, N.Y.m 1879-88m General linem "Earthquake" practice set.

Barber, Palmer & Jones, Utica, N.Y., c. 1875, (S) Utica Fire Alarm.


www.telegraph-office.com/pages/roger.html


Sounder and key combination: