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Post by rodwilson on Oct 8, 2009 14:20:03 GMT -5
ROD; I have been reading your posts with some interest. That's all. Just reading them with some interest and I have come the sad conclusion that you are not really in it for the long haul. Living here is a boot camp for life, Rod. Sometimes it aint pretty, but you sure do learn a lot. It's just my feeling, but perhaps you really would be better off in Saratoga Springs. It's all a matter of degree, Rod. PS: We're not trash here, so stop throwing statistics in our faces. We are all very aware of our shortcomings. Life is a school, rod. Attend and graduate or drop out. Which path will you take? You're absolutely right. I'm not in it for the long haul. I stated that myself, we will be moving. It's my feeling as well that I'll be better off in Saratoga. Most people would. "Boot camp for life"? What, life in Hell? Life isn't like this in most other places. And as far as throwing statistics in anyone faces, I simply pointed out a fact. A fact that will weigh very heavily on any company's decision to come here. Especially tech companies. It also demonstrates the attitude of the city. "Why bother?" What you did do though is prove a point. The residents of Utica and this area suffer greatly from inferiority complex. I didn't say a word about anybody being trash. I don't label people in that manner. So with all due respect, it's all yours. Me, I'm going to ENJOY life, not battle for it. And besides, if you've been reading the whole thread, I grew up in poverty. In streets similar to Utica's. I've snuck into the back of a U-Haul late at night to have someplace dry to sleep. Had my front tooth knocked out by a drunk step father. Left home at 15. So as far as your school of hard knocks, I'm a friggin' PHd. The difference being I pulled my pants up and go and get what I want from the world unlike many here in Utica standing around with their hands out and waiting for somebody to take care of them. So if their IS a qualification for judgment, I'm qualified. But I don't judge, I empathize and I understand. At the same time, I have NO sympathy for those that do nothing to help themselves. There's no use because for them nothing will change until they take action on their own behalf. And by the way, not only didn't I finish high school, I didn't even go after 9th grade. It wasn't until I recognized that it was going to be a problem did I complete a GED and then went to college. And no, I'm not angry about it. It was "boot camp for life". |
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Post by rodwilson on Oct 8, 2009 14:24:05 GMT -5
The reality is that it's far easier for me to move to where it already exists. I've got 2 beautiful little boys to think about. I want them to have every opportunity and those are far and few between here. A wise decision, although I'm surprised you're still considering anywhere in New York as a destination. Only because it's "home" and we have family there. All of my immediate family and most of her extended. Colorado Springs was and still is AWFUL tempting. |
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Post by dicklaurey on Oct 8, 2009 16:57:17 GMT -5
Rod- Again, my "two cents worth" of advice:
As I see it your priorities are:
a) high quality of life for your family
b) excellent opportunity to develop & market your new products
c) opportunities to take part in local government
With that in mind:
1) NY and CA have the highest tax rates on businesses
2) Accepability of your healthy products will be a gamble
3) Low percentage of serious investors due to NY economy
4) harder to break into the film business (have you ever heard the expression: "This film was shot in New York, and, some day, you might be also.")
Of course the pros are that the houses are reasonably priced, and, you will have the comfort of friends and relatives, to lend support.
And now- to toot the horn for Oregon:
a) HIGHEST quality of life for your family
b) Oregon is greatly populated with environmentally correct people, to the point of insanity, and they rule in most of the state. These green-crazies save their farts in bottles, so that they can use the methane to heat their homes, during the winter months! Your new products will be accepted with open arms!
Also, Portland has a thriving movie production industry.
Calif. studios film and set up production companies here, as it is much more cost effective to film here, than in L.A.
c) Also, the small communities around the big towns welcome your interest and participation in local politics.
d) much milder winters (western third of the state) than NY
Cons:
1) houses are more expensive than in NY
2) too much of a good thing can kill you
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Post by rodwilson on Oct 8, 2009 18:00:26 GMT -5
Thanks Dick, all great points. c) is not really a priority. It began to become one here as I came to recognize that any change here is going to have to come from inside the machine. 1 is a given but I'll trade it for my boys being able to grow up around family. 2 The response has been outstanding. Like I said it goes beyond the products. It's a healthy. on the go fast food/concessions option that can be sold anywhere there is high foot traffic. The options really are widespread. We're tweaking our PB&J Waffle on a stick for festivals and fairs in the spring summer. Family oriented, fun, nutritious and eco friendly. Beyond that our mission is to be a community and socially minded company that supports opportunities for youth and family. We have a Disney animator doing our site. It should be done in early Jan. www.poppysnutbutters.com/Poppy was what we called my paternal grandfather and to me just an amazing man. His home to me as a child was a haven. Some of profits come this company will make "magic" happen for what I hope to be many people. 3 It's already funded. 4 While I love film, it's just really something I want to play with and do for myself and see where it goes. While I've never been to Oregon, Northern California is absolutely one of my favorite places in the world. I may have to give it some serious thought. Interestingly, everywhere we've considered outside of NY is in the West. The decision to move is final but the destination is not. My wife will finish the school year so it gives us some time to continue to explore. Family here though is important. The other thing is that I could more easily launch here and move to the Capital District area than moving across country. I certainly do appreciate the input. Thank you. |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2009 19:03:31 GMT -5
I was just telling someone today at lunch that my intention is to stay here in New York State for the long haul, but I don't know how long I can afford it. Albany is playing "break the bank" ... MY bank. Factoring out reassessments, my property tax base has doubled in ten years. Maybe less than ten years. I could look it up, but I don't feel like discouraging myself this evening. A friend drove up to Homeland Security in Albany yesterday to get a "twix" card, now necessary if you plan to offload ships, which he will do at the Port of Albany as a sub contractor. (TWIC: Transportation Worker Identification Credential.) His interview lasted about 3 hours (!) and in 3 or 4 weeks he will receive his card and be able to unload and transport sand. You read that correctly, sand. High quality silica. He'll have to pay a hundred dollars or so for the card, but I have no doubt that the government will be spending tens of thousands in salaries and burden for that card. That's our tax money, folks. I don't think Rod will find things much different from Utica in Saratoga. While I agree that Utica is noted for self-abasement, politicians whose only real goal is to enrich themselves and their friends will be found everywhere. Local politics is a charade, anyway. Nothing of import can happen at the local level. It all happens in Albany and Washington. That's where the money is. You can sink tax money into every empty cow field in central New York trying to attract new business, but companies aren't going to come unless the real money goes into the right pockets in Albany and Washington. That's what the hi speed rail link is for, to speed the payoffs in a timely fashion.  And I don't think it's any different in any other state, although at the moment some things are cheaper elsewhere. |
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Post by rodwilson on Oct 8, 2009 19:40:46 GMT -5
Dave, things are very different in Saratoga. I understand the local political components are the same. Politics have gone on since the dawn of man and will be there at the end. The key is that for the most part, the antics of the local politicos don't hurt the people. They understand that what's good for the people is good for them. They seem to miss that point here. There is a quality of life in the Capital District that simply doesn't exist here. Period. Concerts, events, far better dining than Utica and it's claim to world class food and quality shopping. Far better education and health care. My brother pays half of what I pay in property taxes. And his house is worth more than mine. There is simply NO comparison. For an hour and a half away, it's a world apart. The difference in attitude is undeniable.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2009 22:49:44 GMT -5
Both my children live in the capital district and we are pretty familiar with it, living about 45 miles south. Much of our shopping, doctoring, etc. is done there. We have also been looking for housing there on a semi-serious basis. Actually, last year we were pretty much settled on a house in Niskayuna, but were unable to sell ours here for the price we wanted when the real estate market bottomed. Taxes on a house in the $350 K range were $9,000. I thought that was expensive. Taxes on townhouses with half the space were between $6,000 and $7,000, plus association fees. I thought that was REALLY expensive, relative to what I would be getting. Saratoga housing prices were out of sight; we looked at a few. Housing gets more reasonable in the western suburbs of Albany as you head south of Route 5, Washington Ave. But frankly, the area is not as nice. Close in (meaning not East Greenbush), prices and taxes are more reasonable in Colonie, half of which is south of the line I mentioned. But Colonie has kept taxes low by borrowing and I hear the piper will soon be paid with massive tax increases. I know a number of people who live in the Albany area. They sound like people who live in Utica sometimes, but yes I'd say they're a bit more positive. The Albany politicians I've heard sound exactly like Utica politicans, often worse. Move to Oregon. Their politicians are probably just as bad, but the scenery is gorgeous. My two cents. |
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Post by chris on Oct 8, 2009 23:03:48 GMT -5
Monroe County where I live was just written up stating they are the highest taxed in NYS.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2009 23:26:49 GMT -5
Monroe County where I live was just written up stating they are the highest taxed in NYS. That would certainly be a hallmark, especially if they beat NYC/Long Island. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2009 4:03:00 GMT -5
Dave, things are very different in Saratoga. I understand the local political components are the same. Politics have gone on since the dawn of man and will be there at the end. The key is that for the most part, the antics of the local politicos don't hurt the people. They understand that what's good for the people is good for them. They seem to miss that point here. There is a quality of life in the Capital District that simply doesn't exist here. Period. Concerts, events, far better dining than Utica and it's claim to world class food and quality shopping. Far better education and health care. My brother pays half of what I pay in property taxes. And his house is worth more than mine. There is simply NO comparison. For an hour and a half away, it's a world apart. The difference in attitude is undeniable. Hey Rod. A few years back I moved to Glens Falls to take a job out there. I loved it. I very often visited Sarartoga. It's a great place to live, especially if you're into outdoor activities. I don't blame u one bit for moving. I don't know much about the politics out there, but it can't be any worse than the chaos, incompetence, corruption, & stupidity than the locals around here display. Good luck. |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 9, 2009 9:09:08 GMT -5
Now there's a place that people seem to love ... Glens Falls. Not the only person I heard sing its praises, I worked with a guy years ago who had moved around a lot, but remembered Glens Falls as the best place to live. Right on the edge of the Adirondacks, didn't crowd up in the summer like Lake George (then, anyway). Great people, activities, etc. He even liked the winters there, since they were "crispy rather than sloppy," as he put it.
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Just The Facts
Newbie
Step outside, If I am not out there in 5 min then start without me.
Posts: 26
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Post by Just The Facts on Oct 10, 2009 0:01:23 GMT -5
It seems as Rod and I made the decision to focus our energy on other things besides Utica... I just wrote to him yesterday to tell him that I was contemplating on disbanding the group. Today I wrote him and another member andsaid that I have officially quit and disbanded the group.
When I came to this forum tonight, I see that Rod realized what reality is in Utica just about the same time that I did. I read this thread and what he said is just about what I believe.
I posted my rant about Utica on the General forum just a bit ago.
I was just in Lake George this past weekend and loved it. I have heard good things about Glens Falls... will add that to my ideas for relocation.
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Post by Ralph on Oct 10, 2009 3:20:55 GMT -5
Ya know Rod……can’t say I blame you at all. Having “been there and done that”, trying to foment change around here is worse than having to pull your own teeth. While I wish I could get out myself, we can’t. So we endure to persevere and so on and so on, and the world becomes worse than it was, etc.
If I had to do it all over again I would not have devoted myself as fully as I had to trying to bring about the change I wanted, because it became obvious that it was not the same change that a damn good portion of the community wanted.
Granted there are people like Fiona that will be forever battling the tilting windmills, there are far more out there that are either happy with the way things are (the drug dealers and low-lifes) or just plain don’t give a sh*t (the pols gathering up OUR money).
I’ve been shot at and missed and crapped at and hit….literally! So we stay here because we can’t get out and I hide in my corner of town serving coffee for a pittance of what I could make or am worth, but it’s better than being shot at.
As much as I admire your efforts, and I do, get out while you can before you become too entrenched and can’t. There will come a point where either people will fight back or let the world ebb and flow around them until they are gone. And when they are gone, the void will be filled by more of the same ole same ole. Some, (and I am sad to say this but my wife and I are probably of this group) are just trying to survive here as best they can until they expire. I have been down the road and sometimes it is far easier to do what I am doing than to expend the energy and get nothing in return.
My epiphany came to me after I ran for office: My Mom had passed away in the spring of the election year. I suppose I pushed my grief aside because I was fighting for something I truly believed in and she had wanted so much for me to continue. So I plodded door-to-door every single day, printed my own literature, paid for everything myself and kept on going.
When the results from the farce of the election was over I sat and contemplated what to do.
It was Christmas when it hit me. Was the warmest I ever remembered and I decided to go for a walk through the neighborhood. Now granted I had been through the district on foot at least a couple dozen times, but that day I just decided to look at it with my eyes instead of a politicians or a LEO’s.
The HOPE VI houses I fought so hard to get here….crap. Spindles on porches destroyed, yards looked like crap, already 50% of the way to what was already there. Dealers still there…different faces and different corners, but still there. Ditto the “prostitutes”, scum on the doorsteps, etc.
Yeah….the good people I knew were still there as well, but they are hiding as they always have.
Then “IT” hit me! What was I thinking?!?! These people didn’t want to be saved, they liked things just the way they were, and they were importing more of the same as the rest of the good people moved on or died off. I was relying on folks that were out numbered to come to my aid when they couldn’t even come to their own….IF they wanted to.
The organizations that are out there to help…..well despite what most people would like to think, they are in it for themselves, period. And anyone that tells you otherwise is full of it. The true mission of any NFP business is to put itself OUT of business, really, think about it. But there is no money in that is there?
And face it, as my Executive Director put so aptly to me when I started questioning our Weed & Seed Strategy……….”It’s all about the money.”
So am I disappointed in your decision…..not hardly. Good luck to you my friend, may your family live long and prosper and may you all enjoy the fruits of your labors……in peace and quiet and comfort.
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Oct 10, 2009 13:15:17 GMT -5
Ya know Rod……can’t say I blame you at all. Having “been there and done that”, trying to foment change around here is worse than having to pull your own teeth. While I wish I could get out myself, we can’t. So we endure to persevere and so on and so on, and the world becomes worse than it was, etc. I don't mean this in any kind of negative way, so please don't take it as such, but you're a perfect example of why the area is, sadly, doomed. When someone who has worked so hard and for so long to make the community a better place gets ground into the dirt by the corruption and apathy, there's really no hope left. As you point out, just compare what HOPE VI was supposed to be with what it turned out to be. Something that by all rights should have been a turning point for the city was turned into a massive boondoggle by the same cast of characters that have tainted everything they've touched for three decades. Millions of dollars that should have helped pay for a true renaissance instead went to the line the pockets of every double-dealing, shady, corrupt politician and their cronies within a twenty mile radius. Nothing about Utica is ever going to change because anyone that tries is slapped down, and slapped down hard, by the pigs that are gorging themselves at the public trough. It's not just that their greed sabotages any effort to change things, but they *need* the area to be a hellhole to justify ever more extravagant "revitalization" projects that do nothing more than move money from the public till into their pockets. Once the Busy Corner fiasco collapses they'll move on to the Marina project, merrily building a "development complex" costing millions on the shores of a river and a canal that are still, literally, filled with shit. It would be hard to find a more perfect metaphor for the area. |
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Post by Ralph on Oct 11, 2009 1:59:04 GMT -5
No offense taken. You see Gear, you “get it” and most folks don’t. When we were pushing Hope VI, I sold it as the last great hope we had to revitalize the city from the inside out at little expense to us. And you are right, it was a wasted effort as we did not get what we were sold, wanted, or expected. It was used for the purpose of lining pockets. Weed & Seed was much the same. It was supposed to be a strategy used to build a self sustaining program that would bridge the Community and LE to bring about change. And again, “it was all about the money”. I had seen both Hope VI and Weed & Seed work miracles in so many different places that I thought it would be a no brainer here. But no, too many people standing in line to muck up the works. And you’re right, 100%!!!! Try and buck the system and you are slapped down harder than a fly at a picnic. And it does grind you down, no matter how much enthusiasm you have, because as you said, it makes no difference….you can’t change it. Sort of like trying to ice skate up hill. Truman said “the buck stops here”….you’re right, pretty soon we’ll all be saying the shit stops here. Sad.  |
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