Larry's letter

[lioneljoe]

Larry,
I found your letter this morning a little confusing and disappointing.
Karl Rove and Dick Cheney?? I'm surprised you didn’t invoke those other Republican Demons: Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. ;D Seriously, they don't live in Oneida County, why bring them up?

Quote: First of all, I might remind the writer that it was he who took advantage of the “spoils system” when he took an appointed position with the former Republican mayor." End quote
Larry, that may be true, but considering your silence on Mayor Roefaro's blatant examples of nepotism... well it puts you on shaky ground bringing it up now.

Quote: Furthermore, it may have been wise for him to research just how far his Republican-controlled county – complete one-party control for the past 50 years – has gone to create a culture of nepotism and economic distress. End quote.

Larry, no fair minded, thinking person is going to buy that either party is totally to blame for our current problems. Nor would any thinking person say that one party or the other will provide the solution. Besides, given the high number of republicans in the area why alienate them by painting with a broad brush?

Quote: As for his history “lesson,” he might want to research the county’s most powerful Republican, Roscoe Conkling, who fought against Civil Service Reform . End quote.
Larry, hasn't the guy been dead for almost a century? How is he relevant? The bottom line is that your letter was more emotional than thoughtful and partisan. If I may respectfully offer a constructive comment: you are not at your best when you write these kinds of letters. In fact, they don’t even sound like you. Anyway, I would like to see you stay on track, with proactive but thoughtful approaches to our area’s problems. Best

[dgriffin]

I'd like to see the complete letter, if someone can put it up here. LJ, without judging Larry, and not having seen the letter, and certainly not being an expert on Utica issues, living afar as I do , I've seen politicians produce such letters ... all emotion and little fact. If that's what Larry in fact wrote, I hope he'll take your advice. Knowing Larry, at least through this forum, I'm sure he'll consider your point of view. One thing about the man, he's a learner.

[lioneljoe]

Dave,
Here is the complete letter Observer-Dispatch. You may want to also read today's article on the dispute between new guard Democrats and old guard democrats. Larry is featured prominently.
www.uticaod.com/news/x1886177048/Democrats-It-s-old-guard-vs-new-guard

Posted Aug 20, 2009 @ 10:52 PM

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County payroll example of ‘spoils system’

A recent letter would be laughable if not for the blatant lies and misinformation. It begs the question of whether the writer bought Karl Rove’s and Dick Cheney’s political playbook that focuses on fear tactic instead of solid facts and good public policy.

First of all, I might remind the writer that it was he who took advantage of the “spoils system” when he took an appointed position with the former Republican mayor. Furthermore, it may have been wise for him to research just how far his Republican-controlled county – complete one-party control for the past 50 years – has gone to create a culture of nepotism and economic distress.

All one needs to do is take a look at the county payroll to see the “spoils system” where a select few do all the eating while my district (Cornhill) continues to be left behind. And although we had a Republican representative for nearly two decades here, we have seen nothing.

When I ran in 2007, I promised the people that I would fight against the old guard political machine in county government. So, for that I make no apologies. As for his history “lesson,” he might want to research the county’s most powerful Republican, Roscoe Conkling, who fought against Civil Service Reform in favor of the “spoils system.” He even went so far as to resign from the U.S. Senate to protest Civil Service laws.

That’s “his” Republican Party.

LARRY TANOURY JR.
Utica

Tanoury is a Democratic Oneida County legislator, representing the 25th District.

[dgriffin]

Interesting article by Ackerman. I take from it the Republicans accuse the "new guard" Democrats of ripping things up just to draw attention to themselves in their bid for power.
The New Democrats defend themselves by saying that "old guard" Democrats were too close to Republicans in the past and that resulted in bad legislative decisions and nepotism. Some Democrats may be supporting Republicans to keep themselves in power.

What does this mean? "In November, all 29 seats on the legislature are up for election, and 18 of the races include both Democratic and Republican candidates." Are there that many uncontested seats? If so, a large part of the problem could be apathy.

[lioneljoe]

Speaking as a republican who is not happy with my party at the county and town level I'm practically begging to be convinced that the local Dems have ideas to move the are forward. However, I need real, concreate ideas, not just back bench political pie throwing.

[dgriffin]

Well, as they say, I can feel your pain, LJ. Without regard to Oneida County politics, Larry or the issues involved (of which I know little) I'm in a similar quandary here in my county. Either the "best and the brightest" have up and left the main tent or they are so hamstrung for various reasons that perhaps no progress will ever be made.

Elsewhere on this forum I've posted information from old newspaper articles I've found, and these often portray much more success in governance than we see today. Sure, we could say times were simpler then (but they weren't) or that an upper class ruled the roost, which would be true. But there were a number of attributes possessed by city and county lawmakers in that time that surely are pertinent.
1. They were more independent of state and federal restrictions, money and influence than today. This enabled them to design solutions unique to their home area, as well as avoid arguments about du jour proprieties promoted by national media.
2. They were not professional politicians. They were mostly businessmen whose incomes derived largely from local projects. Most did not depend upon their political posts for their income. They believed men were able to govern themselves and to them a degree in PoliSci would have been risible. As major property owners, they paid a lot of taxes and had an interest in keeping the tax bill low. To reduce their income taxes, they gave away huge sums for public parks and buildings.
3. They were swift in their dealings. Investigation by the Utica Common Council into the Genesee Flats fire of 1896 began the day after the tragedy. Witnesses were called within the week. Members of the council even attended a funeral home to inspect a body. In a matter of a few months, legislation was passed and new laws for multiple dwellings were in place. No 3-year investigation by a National Apartment Safety Board, no televised hearings where each politician got his "face time."
4.The lawmakers were republican in nature. Although serving at the discretion of the voters, they believed they were elected to make decisions despite what a show of hands might yield at the moment. If the electorate disagreed at the next election, so be it.
5. In a sense, they owned the police department. They appointed the chief and told him to clear the rabble from the streets when quality of life was affected. Broken Window Syndrome was much on their minds, more so than individual rights. Such an arrangement was ripe for abuse, and that certainly happened, probably often. But the discipline was often mitigated by policemen who were drawn from the people.

I suppose I've painted the historical picture too rosy. And we will never again see life as it was in the Gay Nineties. Still, there are lessons to be learned from the past.

Life was not easy a hundred years ago, and certainly the distance between the haves and have-nots was great. The politicians of a century ago were not angels, but they built America. What have we seen local politicians build today?

[rodwilson]

Aug 23, 2009 9:20:21 GMT -5 lioneljoe said:

Speaking as a republican who is not happy with my party at the county and town level I'm practically begging to be convinced that the local Dems have ideas to move the are forward. However, I need real, concreate ideas, not just back bench political pie throwing.

I went to the leg session tonight and got to see Larry in action. He's passionate that is for sure. And I do believe him to be the real deal. He's young and excitable and right about now I'll take that over what we've had. He stated what he had to state and I understand why sometimes he is represented as "boorish", his fellow legislators interrupted him while he had the floor as well commenting among themselves while he spoke. I saw one leg, I'd call her out if I was certain of her name get up and walk out rudely shaking her head when he was kicking the "old guard" right in the boys. I also need to add here that I do believe that Larry DOES understand the issues that we face and he has offered solutions.

I am now completely convinced that the Oneida County Leg is just incredibly dysfunctional. My own leg who is a Democrat (clearly an old guard) repeatedly voted WITH the Republicans despite the rest of the Democrats voting nay. And they were issues that IMO, he should have voted no on. BIG nos.

I ALSO believe that there can be much brighter days ahead for this county. If I didn't, I'd be packing.

[clarencebunsen]

A significant fraction of a lifetime ago, I supported in successive elections Barry Goldwater and Eugene McCarthy. My reasoning was this. I would rather be governed by an honest person with whom I disagreed that by a scoundrel who happens to agree with me today.

Thus I had no real problem supporting a man who was more conservative than Newt Gingrich and another who was more liberal than Ted Kennedy. I felt that both were focused on the needs of the country and committed enough to put those needs ahead of any other interests.

[rodwilson]

Did I mention that Larry called for the resignation of RoAnn Destito tonight? That's ballsy.

[fiona]

Very good analysis of the situation with relationship to the past ,Dave. I think that it worked well because of the prevailing ethos of manifest destiny not only for a city but for the residents within. Also, civic pride was part and parcel of the 'CITY BEAUTIFUL MOVEMENT', whereby the boulevards, avenues and streets were laid out and maintained. Also, the city was smaller, and of course the gap between the haves and the havenots was as extreme as ever, but problems were taken care of on a timley basis, not allowed to fester. the Flats were down within a week and by the next day, after the fire, it was reported that Northrup and Latcher had already decided to rebuild. IMAGINE THIS HAPPENING TODAY? No, we can't go back to the gay nineties, but we can have a decent modicum of civic pride and impart it to our children. After all, it's obvious that Utica wasn't built by Crackheads and I am not being facetious here. All Iv'e read leads me to believe that these were fair minded people, but perhaps it's just the passage of time and distance that makes it so.

[fiona]

Since we're quoting Roscoe Conkling, whom I personally admire for his audacity as well as his political fervor, why not run a few posts to see what the man actually had to say about Utica when he was mayor, and how this would relate to our problems today? I am in no way invalidating the current discussion, nor making light of it. I believe that by studying the past we can learn how to live in the present and perhaps have a better grasp of the potentials of the future.

[dgriffin]

That's an excellent idea, Fiona! What "Roscoe Conkling would have done" should prove interesting, and might even be pertinent, in that it would point to how a successful person handled things, someone who was tried by the fires of commerce (and I wouldn't include the funeral business.) Today's policitians are all too often bit players in the mindless soap opera of their political party. "Haircuts," they're often called. Elections are won with advertising dollars and a razon cut, rather than balls.

CB, you and I would have been much in agreement in those days of yore. AuH2O and McGovern were two estimable men, albeit one a little crazy and the other idealistic. And I did vote for Goldwater. In '72, however, I voted for Nixon, but secretly wished McGovern would win. I did not care for McGovern's handlers or the party. I disliked Nixon as much as the next voter, but I believed he knew what he was doing. And I still think that. Someday when the American psyche gets over the man's awful personality, historians will judge him more kindly.

By the way, that's interesting that Larry called for the resignation of RoAnn Bandito. Have we heard her reaction?

[tanouryjr]

I'm a little late to this thread but I think my letter would have made more sense if the OD kept the name of the writer that I was replying to in my editorial. I was responding to this editorial that was completely partisan and complained about the problems in city government, yet named three COUNTY legislators (including me) and tried blaming us for that...

www.uticaod.com/viewpoints/x1678044793/Your-views-Letters-to-the-Editor