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Post by wcup102 on Aug 11, 2009 21:30:08 GMT -5
Just a word about the "victim". This "vicitm" and his younger brother ganged up on a 12 yo in school because the younger brother(about 12 +/-) and the 12 yo had a spat. The "victim" heard about it and he and the younger brother jumped the 12 yo, over a trivial matter and caused serious damage to the 12 yo. The 12 yo required surgery on his face and teeth. That case went through Family court. Need i say more.
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Post by fiona on Aug 11, 2009 23:47:01 GMT -5
How right you all are. Everyday the things I see on the street, at my work, while I am out and about make me sick. The trash, the run down raunchy neighborhoods ( take a look at the photo of the new Lindsey center in today's OD.) The photo tells it all. I have nothing more to say about that. We have a mayor who is MIA who actually spent his time and my money going around town taking photos of cigarette ads in stores and then spent more of his time and my money to e mail the tobacco companies so they would remove the signs! I mean- in the general scheme of things what is this s...t? The city is dying from within. I am so disgusted. Last Friday evening about 5PM I was walking down Genesee Street when I saw a gang (5 or 6) young black boys on bicycles on the corner of Watson and Genesee. These kids were about 10 to 12 years old. They rode down to Planned Parenthood and surrounded a middle aged caucasion couple coming up the street. They encircled them with the bikes and although I couldn't hear what was being said, it was quickly turning ugly. I called the police, and within two minutes they were there, while the boys scattered through Nurses Park. I personally was assulted on Genesee Street last year by 5 Hispanic girls ages 12 to 15. This was at 6:30 PM. The case has yet to go to court. I think that this city is so degraded that it is past the point of no return. My take on this is: If they want it, let them have it! i can't afford to leave, so I'll live here until I die and then come back as Paris Hilton. (Not!) The contempt that I see by certain ethnic minorities on a day to day basis sickens me. OK: Another scenario seen on Genesee Street on a daily basis: walking in the road, into or against oncoming traffic. this is how it goes: There are one or two or three, sometimes with baby carriages, who walk into oncoming traffic at the corner of Genny and Oswego T..his seems to be the preferred location. This consists of am amble looking straight ahead, a casual amble and then, once the traffic starts, a raised hand that signals stop, as the casual amble continues. they never drop a beat. I think that melee on Oneida Square was planned well in advance for reasons beyond my comprehension. Crime is down on James Street? Anybody walked on Clinton place latley?
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Post by stoney on Aug 12, 2009 13:19:47 GMT -5
The incidents you describe, Fiona, surely must have been scarey.
But I don't see what the kids' ethnicity/race had to do with the stories you told.
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Post by rodwilson on Aug 12, 2009 20:14:56 GMT -5
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Post by fiona on Aug 12, 2009 23:13:21 GMT -5
ethnicity has everything and nothing to do with it.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 13, 2009 9:31:23 GMT -5
I've been thinking about your comment, Stoney. On one hand, one could write Fiona's narrative implying the kids' behavior was because of race or nationality. But that implication is nowhere evident in her post. On the other hand, one could write the narrative without any mention of race or nationality. Such a presentation might please some, but what would be the object or benefit, other than a simple avoidance of the use of real world descriptors and a sop to those who would take offense.
What's your thoughts?
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Post by stoney on Aug 13, 2009 12:46:02 GMT -5
I just think the stories could have been told without making references to ethnicity & race. It's just that sort description that perpetuates further stereotypes in society.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 13, 2009 13:15:33 GMT -5
I have to agree with Dave Stoney. I am usually the first to sanction any negative mention of race in a post, but it is obvious that if there is black gangs of kids harassing folks, then the race is but a descriptive term that applies to the offenders in this case.
I noticed the last couple of trips to Utica, that there ARE bold and brazen groups of black kids that walk in the street and dare you to hit them or to mess with them. I did not notice white kids doing the same thing, although it probably happens also. I have always loved Utica, and have many friends of color from many years of living there, but there is an element that does not reflect back to the families that we knew in our younger days. There seems to be an arrogance and attitude that would not have been tolerated by parents OR police back in the 60's and 70's. When I last visited Ralph at his home I was half afraid to leave my truck unattended on the street in front of his house.
There was a time when I would attend a UFA dance, and then walk to Kewpies and back to Taylor Ave with a girl I was going with at the time. Today, I would not even DRIVE that route at night and it is not only blacks that make it unsafe to wander the inner city at night! Dealers of all ethnicities, armed and dangerous, as well as those who patronize them, make the neighborhoods hotbeds of crime and violence.
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Post by stoney on Aug 13, 2009 14:48:09 GMT -5
I do understand where you & Leona are coming from~~to a degree. I have to respectfully disagree with the kids' ethnicity/race being a factor necessary in describing the situations, however.
It WAS a bad thing that those kids circled that couple. But it did NOT matter that the kids were black & the couple was white. It was also bad that Fiona was assaulted by a group, but it would have been just as bad if she was assaulted by Italians, Germans, or Swedes.
Of course, this sort of description is necessary if one has to give info to the police. Otherwise I don't believe it has a thing to do with the actual incidents themselves.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 13, 2009 15:31:05 GMT -5
It's the damn french canadians that you have to watch out for. We are a dangerous lot and we mix with the Italians undetected, hahaha. Dark complextion, dark hair ( those of us that have any left). We would never be detected except at meal time when we prefer fried potatoes to pasta.
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Aug 13, 2009 15:55:21 GMT -5
I'm of rather mixed feelings about describing criminals by race.
On the one hand, you have situations where media outlets are so terrified of being accused of racism that they won't mention skin color in a description of a suspect. Obviously, that's the kind of goofy "sensitivity" that's counterproductive.
On the other hand, I absolutely despise blaming race as the reason for criminal behavior. The ironic part of most stereotyping of African-Americans in that regard is that it isn't "black" culture that embraces the criminal, but "southern rural poor" culture. Which, to be frank, is just the underbelly of the good ol' boy rebel archtype. Most urban black gangs have the same cultural foundation as the poor white moonshiners up in the hills, despite the mutual antipathy the two groups might share.
On the third hand, a lot of racial stereotyping in the US is really a thinly disguised form of classism. I was the only white guy in a car filled with *very* dark-skinned, highly educated Somali's that was stopped for no apparent reason by police in Philadelphia. After politely replying to the officers questions (and once he saw the business suits and heard the slightly clipped British-influenced Somali accent) he warned us we were heading into a bad part of town and sent us on our way. After a few minutes of grumbling about the traffic stop we realized he was serious about the "bad part of town" comment- the neighborhood we were driving through was filled with graffiti covered buildings, loud music, and the kind of rambunctious, urban teens you normally see in MTV videos.
When we came to a red light, with a crowd of stereotypical "gangsta" kids glaring at our car from every corner of the intersection, every one of us locked our doors.
The cop almost certainly stopped us because it was an expensive car with out of state plates filled with blacks, but waved us on when they were obviously educated, upper-middle-class professionals. And then those same doctors and lawyers, just driving away from an almost certainly racially motivated traffic stop, nervously locked up the car when confronted by African-American "urban youths".
It's a funny ol' world.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 13, 2009 16:14:36 GMT -5
Good post Gear. I don't understand the "southern rural poor" comment though. Most blacks here are very laid back and nice. It seems that the stereotypical demographic that is prevalent in Utica comes from NY City and the South Bronx, not the rural south that you speak of.
We DO have the underbelly of white society here. There are rednecks and bigots here that you would not believe can live in todays society. The ignorance and undue prejudice is unreal. There was recently an item on TV news that showed a meth lab bust. The dirtbag that was arrested had the stars and bars flying from a 12 foot length of blue plastic sewer pipe in his front yard, and a full sized rebel flag stuck in the stake pocket of his rustbucket pickup truck.
Until recently there was a person here that flew the rebel flag ABOVE the American flag. Locals made a big enough stink about that, and it was removed.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 13, 2009 16:53:22 GMT -5
Well, there are stupid people everywhere. Some of them fly the flag of a rebellion vanquished 150 years ago, others work for TV stations.
Another point about the use of racial descriptors is that they are situational, in my opinion. For the purpose of not offending a race, or alienating those who become offended by mention of race, I would make public statements free of race when possible. Today, this seems to be the accepted norm in the public sphere, and given the emotions involved, probably a good one. However, I do agree with Gear that the media can torture racial identity out of a story to the point of being ridiculous. But in more personal conversations, such as around a table or on a friendly internet forum, where the intended recipients are few and known, even though theoretically hundred's of millions of souls could view the statements, I think I would be relaxed enough to be more free with my narrative. Unless I were a politican afraid of it coming back at me. That's not an excuse for a racial rant, just an observation.
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Aug 13, 2009 18:39:46 GMT -5
Good post Gear. I don't understand the "southern rural poor" comment though. Most blacks here are very laid back and nice. It seems that the stereotypical demographic that is prevalent in Utica comes from NY City and the South Bronx, not the rural south that you speak of. I was trying to say that the stereotypical "ghetto" and "white trash" criminal culture are essentially the same, both born of the excesses of the reconstruction period in the South. You can probably trace the sociological roots back even further into basic tribalism, but I think what we call "gangsta" is a natural development of southern moonshinin' culture from the late 1800's. As southern blacks moved north they brought a tradition of covert distillation that thrived in an urban environment until drugs became a more lucrative alternative. |
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Post by fiona on Aug 13, 2009 20:27:58 GMT -5
this is a great thread. I have a question? What is "covert distillation?" Are you talking about alcohol? Also, would it have more politically correct of me to say " the girls that hit me on the head were Chinese or Vietmanese or whatever? This happened to me. It was a crime committed by a certain ethnic group. Read the papers, walk the streets. Then tell me whose names you read. also, what I didn't say is that this was over the Thanksgiving weekend when school is out. Only one of the girls lived in Utica, the other 4 were her relatives, staying with her from guess where? I'll whisper it softly so it won't be offensive: S o u t h b r o n x... and then: the young boys: they were black. this is a fact, not a figment of my imagination. No one of us wants to be labaled a raciest. I live here, I see what I see.
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