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Post by dgriffin on Jul 23, 2009 20:57:54 GMT -5
All of these things surely make me wonder. When it happens to someone you know, you'll wonder a bit more too That is certainly true, and I'm sorry it happened to you and the person you know. Your mention of a "false candidate" brought to mind a situation from about ten years ago. An old friend was convinced by party leaders in my part of the state she could make the first run of her life in politics and unseat a congressman who was solidly in office. To a realist, she didn't stand a chance of winning, but the party old boys knew how to play to her ego. She is a smart gal and a successful business woman, but her better judgment deserted her, I think, especially in the area of finances, because she put a lot of money from her own pocket into the campaign. I'm sure the availability of her cash was a major factor, along with her naivete, in the party choosing her to run in an impossible race. It was sad to watch, but people will do what they will do. And if the Congressman she ran against had dropped dead a week before the election, my friend might today be an influential congressman flying around the world on junkets we pay for and getting private advice on her portfolio from Goldman Sachs while the rest of us are going broke. And I might add ... since I'm feeling a little bitter tonight ... having premium health care coverage while they put the rest of us on a system that only the residents of Cameroon would envy. Anyway, that's what I think of as a false candidate, where a good candidate is not wasted on an impossible race, and instead an unknown is talked into running.. |
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Post by lovinglife on Jul 23, 2009 21:23:30 GMT -5
We were posting at the same time I guess lovinglife. I had read only your first post, and simply wanted to know more about where that all came from. Faultlines is a reliable source in it's self. Strikeslip is a member here, and if he says something, you can damn near bet it has been researched and documented before it is posted. Your first post simply seemed like a lot of pent up frustration and anger with little basis being offered in support of the opinions being stated. I don't necessarily subscribe to the "fake candidate" scenario, but neither do I deny that politics are corrupt as hell on all levels of government in Utica, Oneida County and NY State. Hell, one would have to be nuts to even infer that politics was on the up and up in that area. I kind of go along with Dave. This forum will discuss anything and everything, and without hostility. It is hard to determine a persons intent when you can't read inflection into printed text. No hostility was meant in either Dave's or my own posts. Simply disputed the number of allegations made with no further discussion offered. Hey, what the hell, if you just want to lay it out there and rant, I suppose that is okay too. We even have an area called the "Steam Room" for doing just that. LOL. I meant no offense in my first post. Just simply looking for some further information in order to understand where you were coming from, and where the discussion might lead. I guess in trying to bring out further discussion, we succeeded, LOL. You will find many allies on this forum, that believe basically the same as you do. I tend to be a fan of my old hometown and can't wait to move from Tennessee back to the area. I don't suffer under any illusion that the politics are lily white, but I do hold hope for the entire area and may look at things through a little different pair of glasses as a retired person. I don't need to worry about the employment and I have good healthcare and we own our home without a mortgage, so we have less to worry about with the economic climate in the area. It is not that it is not a serious factor in the area recovery. It is a simple matter of it not impacting us as much as a young couple raising children and paying off a mortgage. I simply look at the tranquility of the Adirondacks and the entire CNY area, and a peaceful setting to live out my years. My worries with politics are on a much higher level, and I worry myself sick about a president that is taking us down a road to socialism and bankruptcy. THAT will effect my children and grandchildren much more than a crooked mayor, and county exec. I am a fan of this area as well. I just don't like the dirty politics. And while I entirely agree with you on worries with politics on a much higher level - that's where my head is more typically at - and I am very, very concerned with where things are going right now ... as to the local scene, it is hardly benign. It is much more than Nepotism keeping our children and loved ones away from the jobs. I've seen them destroy people. For inadvertantly stepping on their toes. I sat in our courtrooms for the past two years, and did not like what I saw at all. It was not fair, what I saw - and I'm not even talking about the situation I was there in support of. I'm talking about the cases simply observed by me. We are a good family. I'm raising our children well. I don't picture my children growing up to be trouble makers, and for the most part, when that is who you are you don't worry about it. You mind your own business, and they leave you alone, right? That's what most of us would expect. But that is not what I've seen now. I see that you don't have to be guilty to get on their radar. You just have to offend them somehow, or have a successful business that competes with one of theirs. What if offending them means that you hired one of them for something and they didn't do their job - so you had to let them go. Then you feel like your being blackmailed. Let them bully you - keep them on even though they are incompetant - or have your life ruined. That has not happened to me, but I've seen it. Said all that to say, I've never been as concerned about the local government until recently - when I've seen the lengths they will go to to hold their positions. Yes, this is still where I want to raise my children. I'm not leaving. At least I don't think so. Never say never. I have confidence that one day the corruption will be dealt with. I have confidence that good people who really want to serve are out there, and we will beat this. But the whole false candidate thing, or whatever it is that's going on to keep the corrupt in power, will need to be found out and exposed. I cannot emphasize enough, it is not benign. It is not only costly tax dollar wise, but it is dangerous to the few who happen to get in the way. And you were probably right in your first assessment. There is definitely some pent up anger and frustration. And its for very good reason. You are very right about the bigger picture though - what Obama is doing could very well put us all out of business - including the corrupt local government. |
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Post by lovinglife on Jul 23, 2009 21:28:43 GMT -5
All of these things surely make me wonder. When it happens to someone you know, you'll wonder a bit more too That is certainly true, and I'm sorry it happened to you and the person you know. Your mention of a "false candidate" brought to mind a situation from about ten years ago. An old friend was convinced by party leaders in my part of the state she could make the first run of her life in politics and unseat a congressman who was solidly in office. To a realist, she didn't stand a chance of winning, but the party old boys knew how to play to her ego. She is a smart gal and a successful business woman, but her better judgment deserted her, I think, especially in the area of finances, because she put a lot of money from her own pocket into the campaign. I'm sure the availability of her cash was a major factor, along with her naivete, in the party choosing her to run in an impossible race. It was sad to watch, but people will do what they will do. And if the Congressman she ran against had dropped dead a week before the election, my friend might today be an influential congressman flying around the world on junkets we pay for and getting private advice on her portfolio from Goldman Sachs while the rest of us are going broke. And I might add ... since I'm feeling a little bitter tonight ... having premium health care coverage while they put the rest of us on a system that only the residents of Cameroon would envy. Anyway, that's what I think of as a false candidate, where a good candidate is not wasted on an impossible race, and instead an unknown is talked into running.. Yes - agree with that scenerio of possible false candidate. What I see is that what is done is not exactly criminal, but they know how to fly just below the radar. It's dirty. But maybe not criminal. at least the political games. When you get into donations and contracts and such, it can certainly get criminal as well. |
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Post by lovinglife on Jul 24, 2009 8:41:21 GMT -5
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 24, 2009 9:07:22 GMT -5
Yes, I was going to ask if you'd seen that. And I'm sure that each of the participants is sitting in his kitchen this morning completely surprised he or she is accused of doing wrong, more so than "just doing business the way it's always been done."
E.g., did the $30K mentioned in the article go directly into the politicians wallet or into a campaign or PAC-like fund? Where is the legal line of criminality? Is it clear? Did a rabbi, when laundering money, feel that's what he was doing, or did he look at it as a personal service, no questions asked. (That to me seems less forgiveable than the first example.)
Does a District Attorney bring charges in an election year, whereas in other years would issue a warning and ask for proof of compliance?
To you and I, if it feels wrong, it probably is wrong. But a person staring at piles of money can get a warped concscience pretty quickly.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Jul 24, 2009 9:36:58 GMT -5
I would agree that NYS has way too many "no contest" elections. Locally, Reps Destitio & Townsend have not had a viable opposition candidate in years.
One change I would like to see is eliminating the petition system for nominations. It seems to work mostly to remove "unwanted" candidates through technical challanges. Let anyone who wants enter a primary with a small filing fee and a non-partisan review that the legal qualifications for office (age, residency...) are met.
Also, eliminate a candidate having multiple lines on a ballot for cross endorsements. What is the point of a minor party endorsing a major party candidate to get another line on the ballot?
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Post by Ralph on Jul 25, 2009 2:46:26 GMT -5
If you don't live in the midst of it you don't always see it, but "it" is there.
When I ran for Council someone asked my opponent why he was not doing any serious campaigning, he replied that he didn't have to....he was guaranteed the re-election.
Strange....
Technically my qualifications were better, my experience in the community wider and more diversified, etc., etc.
I was endorsed by my political party and then left totally alone in the dark by them. My own district chairperson wouldn't even return my phone calls! But still I persevered; gathered ALL my own signatures on my petitions, campaigned door-to-door every day. My wife did all my phone calls to voters.....of all parties! Ran one of the first websites dedicated to a city-wide campaign.
You name it.....I did it. Three different "camps" in the city were doing polls, ALL had me winning by a large margin.
Election day......No one from my party was to be seen. I made the rounds of my polling places that morning. Where did I find my very own district chairperson?
Why in another polling place having a tête-à-tête with the very person I was running against!!!! Spent a good portion of the day with him too from what I was told.
Still, come election night as the results were finally rolling in.....
Well hells bells.....when the 11 o'clock news came on I was ahead by a good 60-70%!!
In the time it took me to walk up the stairs from my office to our living room the results had completely reversed themselves and needless to say I didn't win.
Despite all those "in my corner", I only received two phone calls the next day. One from a woman that had supported me throughout the election, and one from Larry, who had stood by me throughout the whole election.
There are those that need "proof", there are those that shed doubt, there are those that won't talk about it.........
And there are those of us who have lived through it.
A lot of people wonder why I always defend Larry. It's not only that I believe he has the capacity to start change, do what is right for his constituents or fight for the people....
.....a lot has to do with the respect I have for him being able to co-mingle with these folks without puking his guts up every day as well! ;D
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Post by lovinglife on Jul 25, 2009 21:04:46 GMT -5
If you don't live in the midst of it you don't always see it, but "it" is there. When I ran for Council someone asked my opponent why he was not doing any serious campaigning, he replied that he didn't have to....he was guaranteed the re-election. Strange.... Technically my qualifications were better, my experience in the community wider and more diversified, etc., etc. I was endorsed by my political party and then left totally alone in the dark by them. My own district chairperson wouldn't even return my phone calls! But still I persevered; gathered ALL my own signatures on my petitions, campaigned door-to-door every day. My wife did all my phone calls to voters.....of all parties! Ran one of the first websites dedicated to a city-wide campaign. You name it.....I did it. Three different "camps" in the city were doing polls, ALL had me winning by a large margin. Election day......No one from my party was to be seen. I made the rounds of my polling places that morning. Where did I find my very own district chairperson? Why in another polling place having a tête-à-tête with the very person I was running against!!!! Spent a good portion of the day with him too from what I was told. Still, come election night as the results were finally rolling in..... Well hells bells.....when the 11 o'clock news came on I was ahead by a good 60-70%!! I n the time it took me to walk up the stairs from my office to our living room the results had completely reversed themselves and needless to say I didn't win. Despite all those "in my corner", I only received two phone calls the next day. One from a woman that had supported me throughout the election, and one from Larry, who had stood by me throughout the whole election. There are those that need "proof", there are those that shed doubt, there are those that won't talk about it......... And there are those of us who have lived through it. A lot of people wonder why I always defend Larry. It's not only that I believe he has the capacity to start change, do what is right for his constituents or fight for the people.... .....a lot has to do with the respect I have for him being able to co-mingle with these folks without puking his guts up every day as well! ;D WOW! That is quite the story. Thanks for putting that out there. That's awful - but it's what we see here isn't it. Disgusting. |
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