What kind of Government do we have?

[tanouryjr]

Interesting video. Watch and answer what kind of government we have.

[tanouryjr]

BTW - I would say Oligarchy for sure.

[jager]

I would say a combination of them all.

[Ralph]

Got to agree with you Larry, at least in most of the points.

If we are not there now, we are well on our way.

Scary thought.

[lovinglife]

I've been a member for a while. This is my first post. Hi everyone.

Yes, Oligarchy. A few have tricked the people into thinking they have a vote, but it's all set up. And lets take that lynchmob example given. Let's say it's Oneida County. The lawman comes along and says "He deserves a fair trial" but knows it won't be fair. He and the judge are friends. The judge abuses his power, giving prosecution free reign while tying the hands of the defense. Evidence that would exhonerate is held back. The man is convicted, and it takes the same route as it would have without the law. Here in New York State, the laws are being changed and put into place - loopholes created - to further allow the powerful few to continue down their road of takeover and abuse. The people working hard to pay their taxes are unaware. Who has time to know all that is going on in the Senate.

The voting public do not know that false candidates are being put out there who will not even campaign - to leave the position open to the one who's chosen by this powerful few. Here in Oneida County we have those who leave in disgust, saying "You people want it this way - you won't vote out those who are doing this to you." In reality, it's very hard to do, because the powerful few try and destroy the lives of those who would come along and change things, and set up their false candidates. It really is not about just "getting people to vote." There's a power stronghold that has to be broken. And it is always about the money. Something is going on here in Oneida County. Several things. Corruption that is making a few rich. It behooves them to mix in with the Dems and the Republicans, when in fact they are neither. That's how they get their false candidate. I think that their days are numbered. I think the corruption is going to fall. But it is going to take people who won't keep going back to status quo. Take the police chief situation. They are counting on this "going away." They'll take the heat for a while, then it will go away. This recent thing with Insight House renting for $1 a year - people will say something is wrong with that. People will say "It stinks." But tomorrows news will come along, and we'll forget. If just a few of these situations that come along would be pursued until answers are demanded - until people are held accountable - maybe we'd get somewhere. I think people are finally getting tired enough of it to stick with something until the powerful few are truly held accountable. I hope so.

[dgriffin]

Wow! Those are quite a number of accusations, lovinglife! Do you have something to back them up, or name names and situations? Like you, I am frustrated by government as we see it today. But unsubstantiated claims will never accomplish anything.

E.g., in which case was evidence that would have exonerated the defendant omitted?
And in which races are there false candidates?
Thanks for the info in advance.

[lovinglife]

Jul 23, 2009 14:03:43 GMT -5 @dgriffin said:

Wow! Those are quite a number of accusations, lovinglife! Do you have something to back them up, or name names and situations? Like you, I am frustrated by government as we see it today. But unsubstantiated claims will never accomplish anything.

E.g., in which case was evidence that would have exonerated the defendant omitted?
And in which races are there false candidates?
Thanks for the info in advance.

Well,for the sake of time, I'm not going to go to court with it, and so I'm not going to prepare a case for this discussion board. I'll throw a few things out there - time crunch - company is in from out of town.

The idea of the fake candidate came when I was exploring the possibilities of corruption in Oneida County due to some things I was seeing for the first time. As I delved further and wondered "Why can't people seem to take this county back?" I came across this post this post on a local blog.

As to evidence withheld, I believe this happens all the time. We find out about it when it's caught (when the system works once in a while). Joseph Smith suing Mike Arcuri and others would be one example of this.

Did Steven Barnes get a fair trial? I don't think he did. What was done in the system to see to it that he didn't? I can't answer all of that. I've seen some speculation out there, and by the way things look around here, nothing surprises me.

I see a powerful few running things in our local area. I don't think people are just sitting by and letting it happen. I think that it is a concerted effort, and a few of the things I mentioned are some of the means. The flip side, I guess, is that it is a true Republic, and there is no corruption in Utica. We all just want it this way.

[Clipper]

Gee lovinglife, that is a large number or accusations, or allegations to put out there without a single affirming fact to back any of them up.

A "false candidate?" The only place I have read about any of that sort of thing is on the Justice Denied blog, and that is a place that has a comment section, but never approves a comment or allows anyone to disagree with the bloggers opiinion.

HERE we discuss issues and we are all at liberty to offer opinion. Welcome to Clipper's Corner, and please expound on your theories and allegations so we can all have an idea of where you are coming from. We don't delete comment here simply because it doesn't agree with our own opinion.

It all sounds like an interesting assortment of issues to be delved into in depth.

[lovinglife]

Hey Clipper, maybe you posted that before I posted the link to false candidate in another place than some Justice Denied blog. It was called Faultlines or something of the sort. Not sure if you need more expounding than what I put after my first post and before yours. I mean, I suppose one would want such accusation to have expounding upon expounding. But as I said, I'm not trying to make a case. I'm just putting out there what I've seen. My perspective. Do you really suppose that prosecutors never hold back evidence? Do you really suppose that plays in politics, like false candidates, never happen in our nation? Honestly, I think we'd be shocked if the veil were pulled back and we could really see what is going on. But I'm not going to waste a lot of time fighting it or even discussing it. I was just responding to Larry's video and giving my honest assessment of what I've seen. Republic? I think it's made to look like one. But a few have taken power. That's the simple truth that I see. As I've read the posts on here, I see that many are not happy and seem to see much of the same - a few have power. If so, how and why? How are they keeping it? Is it of concern to anyone? Do they want to look at the issues of how they got that power, and how they might be keeping it? What about Joseph Smith and Mike Arcuri? What about Steven Barnes? What about unfair trials? What about candidates who are on the ticket but never campaign (as told in Faultlines)? Is this not a place to bring this stuff up? If not, sorry.

I'll just say "I think its an Oligarchy."

There. Is that better?

[gearofzanzibar]

Is anyone seriously suggesting that the area's politics *aren't* driven primarily by self-interest, regardless of the party labels the candidates are wearing? The area's political class is just one, big happy corrupt family devoid of any principles other than perpetuating their own power and financial enrichment.

[lovinglife]

And I apologize if I seem to have an edge. I've watched the corruption here do horrible things for the past 3 years. I've seen things that turn my stomach and far beyond. I know what I saw, and I know what they did. And at the moment I am not going to expound on that.

[lovinglife]

Jul 23, 2009 16:03:59 GMT -5 gearofzanzibar said:

Is anyone seriously suggesting that the area's politics *aren't* driven primarily by self-interest, regardless of the party labels the candidates are wearing? The area's political class is just one, big happy corrupt family devoid of any principles other than perpetuating their own power and financial enrichment.

Thank God. Somebody gets it.

[dgriffin]

Hi again, Loving. I agree with your ire. I doubt if there is anyone on this forum who likes the government we have today, for a simple reason. We pay for it and it is not responsive to us.
In my opinion, graft and corruption are surely evident in the actions of our "rulers."

However, I feel uncomfortable in the company of accusations of criminal and immoral activities when they are not substantiated. Opinions are one thing, and we often have little solid factual data we can immediately bring to mind to support them, I've noticed. And that's OK, they're just opinions. But I think allegations of wrongdoing are another matter. Loving, you may make any claim you want on this forum. (At least I think so ... it is not my forum.) And, of course, you needn't bring forward any evidence or cite any source, as you wish. You certainly don't have to satisfy my desires for the factual information.

I hope you continue to post here and I know I will enjoy reading your writing. When I sense
claims are being made that appear unproven, I usually drop out of the thread, rather than
participate in innuendo about possible transgressions possibly committed by unnamed persons. Life is confusing enough with the facts. It's much worse without it.

[lovinglife]

Jul 23, 2009 19:22:52 GMT -5 @dgriffin said:

Hi again, Loving. I agree with your ire. I doubt if there is anyone on this forum who likes the government we have today, for a simple reason. We pay for it and it is not responsive to us.
In my opinion, graft and corruption are surely evident in the actions of our "rulers."

However, I feel uncomfortable in the company of accusations of criminal and immoral activities when they are not substantiated. Opinions are one thing, and we often have little solid factual data we can immediately bring to mind to support them, I've noticed. And that's OK, they're just opinions. But I think allegations of wrongdoing are another matter. Loving, you may make any claim you want on this forum. (At least I think so ... it is not my forum.) And, of course, you needn't bring forward any evidence or cite any source, as you wish. You certainly don't have to satisfy my desires for the factual information.

I hope you continue to post here and I know I will enjoy reading your writing. When I sense
claims are being made that appear unproven, I usually drop out of the thread, rather than
participate in innuendo about possible transgressions possibly committed by unnamed persons. Life is confusing enough with the facts. It's much worse without it.

Thanks - I happen to be on the computer quite a lot these days while I keep updated on my son who is away. I may pop in and write now and then. Eventually, the powers that be will overstep themselves one time to many and expose themselves. They dont even need me. It's already happened on some level, but people just don't get quite upset enough with the nepotism in these parts.

I thought that the link I provided on possible false candidates was thought provoking, and when I saw candidates get a few token votes, and absolutely no campaigning, it became more than just thought provoking - more like eye opening for me. I don't want to convince anyone of things I've become convinced of - I do have my own inside knowledge of someone taken down who was trying to make a difference. So nothing surprises me. I only hope to give others something to think about - and keep their eyes open next election. And as for the exhonerating evidence, I did give a real life example of that happening, and a lawsuit came about because of it, and Joseph Smith (the case where the evidence was withheld) won. So I didn't just throw that out there. In his case, the system came through - but only because some brave soul came forward. Incidently, that brave soul was soon taken down. Coincidence? I'm not going to make that accusation, but it makes me wonder. All of these things surely make me wonder. When it happens to someone you know, you'll wonder a bit more too.

At any rate, thanks, and maybe I'll be around to talk some more.

[Clipper]

We were posting at the same time I guess lovinglife. I had read only your first post, and simply wanted to know more about where that all came from. Faultlines is a reliable source in it's self. Strikeslip is a member here, and if he says something, you can damn near bet it has been researched and documented before it is posted.

Your first post simply seemed like a lot of pent up frustration and anger with little basis being offered in support of the opinions being stated.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "fake candidate" scenario, but neither do I deny that politics are corrupt as hell on all levels of government in Utica, Oneida County and NY State. Hell, one would have to be nuts to even infer that politics was on the up and up in that area.

I kind of go along with Dave. This forum will discuss anything and everything, and without hostility. It is hard to determine a persons intent when you can't read inflection into printed text. No hostility was meant in either Dave's or my own posts. Simply disputed the number of allegations made with no further discussion offered. Hey, what the hell, if you just want to lay it out there and rant, I suppose that is okay too. We even have an area called the "Steam Room" for doing just that. LOL.

I meant no offense in my first post. Just simply looking for some further information in order to understand where you were coming from, and where the discussion might lead. I guess in trying to bring out further discussion, we succeeded, LOL.

You will find many allies on this forum, that believe basically the same as you do. I tend to be a fan of my old hometown and can't wait to move from Tennessee back to the area. I don't suffer under any illusion that the politics are lily white, but I do hold hope for the entire area and may look at things through a little different pair of glasses as a retired person.

I don't need to worry about the employment and I have good healthcare and we own our home without a mortgage, so we have less to worry about with the economic climate in the area. It is not that it is not a serious factor in the area recovery. It is a simple matter of it not impacting us as much as a young couple raising children and paying off a mortgage. I simply look at the tranquility of the Adirondacks and the entire CNY area, and a peaceful setting to live out my years.

My worries with politics are on a much higher level, and I worry myself sick about a president that is taking us down a road to socialism and bankruptcy. THAT will effect my children and grandchildren much more than a crooked mayor, and county exec.