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Post by dgriffin on Apr 19, 2009 9:00:38 GMT -5
Foreign Policy MagazineThe Pirate EconomyBy J. Peter Pham Posted April 2009Why the U.S. Navy can't win this fight.Sunday's dramatic rescue of Capt. Richard Phillips brings to a felicitous end an incident involving the most egregious assault on U.S. commercial shipping in two centuries. The last time maritime marauders were so bold, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison tasked the fledgling U.S. Navy and Marine Corps with taking the fight to the pirate havens along the "shores of Tripoli." This weekend's incident highlights what the world's best-trained military can accomplish under the right conditions. But it also underscores the limits of force in the face of a seemingly intractable challenge posed by the Somali pirates. The pirates aren't just getting lucky. Indeed, Somali piracy is quite the opposite of the helter-skelter often portrayed in the media; it is a highly structured enterprise built around a number of syndicates. Not only are the Somali pirates well-organized, but they have proven to be highly resilient to changes in the strategic environment. As I warned in an analysis two weeks ago, the pirates have not been intimidated by the international naval force that has assembled to prevent a repeat of last year's hijackings. www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4817
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 19, 2009 11:18:36 GMT -5
Don't understand. Why can't they just shoot them out of the water.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Apr 19, 2009 15:49:20 GMT -5
Please note that we are now about to take direct action: uticadailynews.com/ny_world_national/4491-Clinton-announces--step-plan-tackle-piracy.htmlClinton announces 4-step plan to tackle piracy In progressively sterner steps, we will 1. Send an envoy to Brussels. 2. Call for immediate meetings. 3. Task a diplomatic team to meet with Somali leaders and press them to take action. 4. Direct a team to work with shippers. I can't imagine why just announcing this plan hasn't brought the pirates to their knees. I'm sure that they will shortly return all the ships and hostages and offer us $20 million just to call off the meetings.
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 19, 2009 16:25:21 GMT -5
There were days I'd have paid $20 million not to have to go to some meetings.
You know I was just thinking ... if we double nuked Somalia, we'd have a nice hole in the planet for all of the extra water from the melting icebergs to go.
That would save Times Square from flooding, keeping one of our few remaining Economic Engines humming along rust free.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Apr 19, 2009 18:21:36 GMT -5
If you look at the rift that is occurring from the Dead Sea to the Great Lakes of Africa we would only be helping Mother Earth complete a natural geologic process. How could anyone object to that?
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 19, 2009 20:57:24 GMT -5
We're just too good hearted toward humanity!
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Apr 19, 2009 21:07:39 GMT -5
If you look at the rift that is occurring from the Dead Sea to the Great Lakes of Africa we would only be helping Mother Earth complete a natural geologic process. How could anyone object to that? Those of us married to former Somali's, with family still trapped in that hellhole, might object. The gangsters aren't the whole country. There's still a small group of educated, committed people trying to live their lives or salvage some semblance of civilization from the anarchy.
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Apr 19, 2009 21:16:36 GMT -5
We're just too good hearted toward humanity! Pirates are criminals that deserve to be swinging from a yardarm. The average Somali is an uneducated peasant trying to scratch out a life in a country where criminal syndicates control almost everything. It's the closest thing to a "Mad Max" movie you'll ever see outside a theater. The Pirates, by definition, are members of the same syndicates and tribally affiliated criminal organizations that exploit the entire nation. The only reason they're going after foreign ships is because they've already stolen and looted anything else they could lay their hands on. The average Somali has felt their depredations far more personally than anyone in the west.
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 19, 2009 21:46:50 GMT -5
Gear, I'm sure neither Clarence nor I would wish any harm to non-Pirates in Somalia.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 19, 2009 22:28:27 GMT -5
Haha. Unless you intend to give all the Somali civilians lead britches and underground bunkers to hide in Dave, ya can't double nuke Somalia and spare the innocent, LOL. Double nuke would kinda indicate double collateral damage wouldn't it?
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 19, 2009 23:12:46 GMT -5
I meant I would never push the button, and I'm sure neither would ClarenceB. Gear has caught us in a joke that, given his Somali family, turns out to be unfortunate.
"The average Somali has felt (the pirates) depredations far more personally than anyone in the west." That must certainly be true. But right now the world's sympathies are with the ships' crews. What will turn that attention to the plight of the Somali people?
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Apr 20, 2009 1:04:07 GMT -5
I meant I would never push the button, and I'm sure neither would ClarenceB. Gear has caught us in a joke that, given his Somali family, turns out to be unfortunate. "The average Somali has felt (the pirates) depredations far more personally than anyone in the west." That must certainly be true. But right now the world's sympathies are with the ships' crews. What will turn that attention to the plight of the Somali people? Unfortunately, there's not much anyone can do. In some ways Somalia is the most advanced country on the continent outside of South Africa. In that respect it's a shining example of what limited government, in this case no government, can accomplish. On the other hand, the lack of government means the militias, the islamists, and the gangsters can pretty much do whatever they want, replaying the sad history of African tribal politics yet again. What will probably end up happening is Puntland, one of the breakaway districts, will exploit it's oil reserves to bring in foreign investment. They PL "government" is, to put it kindly, less than optimal, but they're probably the only ones that can stabilize the security situation.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Apr 20, 2009 6:53:08 GMT -5
My remarks were (in the most generous reading) stupid. Not a shining example of my thought processes.
We had a chance in '92-93 to make a positive difference, blew it & walked away. It's frustrating that 17 years later we are talking about talking.
The scenario you outline for Puntland may be the best for which we can hope. My fear is that we will make another Nigeria.
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Post by frankcor on Apr 20, 2009 6:53:47 GMT -5
It's disturbing how, with a collapsed government, tribal war lords exploit the starving people and seize food aid to bolster their personal wealth and power.
Now that I think about it, how different are they from our congressional representatives?
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Post by Clipper on Apr 20, 2009 8:40:29 GMT -5
One of my former stepsons served in Somalia. (Sully's younger brother)The 485EIG at Griffiss was instrumental in getting the airport at Mogadishu ready for the large american aircraft to land. We had a test van that was equipped with a TACAN approach radar system. The airport had no such system, so we shipped the van and it was used to guide American C-5's and C-141's to safe night landings, which was instrumental in the operations.
It was one more case of the US jumping in with humanitarian aid, but ending up pulling out without successfully resolving the political issues. I guess we are not able to fight every fight, to the finish, and with the results we would like to see, but it is sad when you look at an average Somali civilian, starving and living in tents. It is sad to see people on the move, with small children in tow, to stay alive and to avoid the violence.
Don't feel badly Clarence and Dave. God gave us a large mouth in order to be able to fit a foot into it, and to enable us to remove the foot without permanent damage to either mouth or foot. Been there and done that!!! Many times my humor has ended up being inadvertently inappropriate, and has left me with a red face, and feeling badly.
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