Hot Air on Wind Energy

[dgriffin]

FactCheck.org


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Hot Air on Wind Energy

April 10, 2009


Don't expect wind power to replace coal as the nation's main source of electric power, whatever Obama's interior secretary said.


Summary

Interior Secretary Salazar said that the amount of "developable" wind power off the East Coast could produce more energy than all the coal-fired electric plants in the U.S., and that wind's potential to replace most of our coal power "is a very real possibility." We find his claims to be wildly optimistic, to say the least.

It's true that government studies show there's enough offshore wind to generate far more than coal plans currently do – in theory. But converting that wind to enough electricity to replace what's now produced by coal won't happen anytime in the foreseeable future. The Interior Department itself made clear its offshore wind estimate was a gross figure of potential resources only, saying in a report that there are several obstacles to achieving that.

We calculate that converting wind to enough electricity to replace all U.S. coal-fired plants would require building 3,540 offshore wind farms as big as the world's largest, which is off the coast of Denmark. So far the U.S. has built exactly zero offshore wind farms.

Another government study last year concluded that to supply just 20 percent of U.S. electricity with wind turbines would require land-based equipment taking up an area "slightly less than the area of Rhode Island," plus scores of offshore wind farms.

A Salazar spokesman says the secretary did not mean to say that replacing coal power with offshore wind power was a realistic goal, but was only trying to draw attention to its potential.

Note: This is a summary only. The full article with analysis, images and citations may be viewed on our Web site:

www.factcheck.org/politics/hot_air_on_wind_energy.html

[Ralph]

Ya know, I am a fan of wind energy....or at least was.

I had to go down to Eaton last week to look for a bird cage someone was selling and I was startled as I traveled over Rt. 20 going west to look up and see all the new wind turbines over towards (I think) Crown Hill.

I am used to seeing the few on the south side of 20 by Waterville, but was disappointed in what the beautiful mountains had become with the addition of the new "wind farm".

[bobbbiez]

Sorry, but I could care less about the sights of beautiful mountains any more. I desperately need a break in my energy cost. It is now a matter of survival for many.

[dgriffin]

Bobbbiez, they are NOT going to reduce your energy costs. Not even if God himself comes down from heaven (He's tried it, don't forget) and hands the Obaminator detailed plans for an affordable Cold Fusion reactor. Wind generators, nuclear, ocean waves and cow farts won't help.

Those folks in the 1950's who foresaw energy "too cheap to meter" forgot about corporate profits, government corruption and plain old greed. Only curtailed use brings down the price of anything.

[bobbbiez]

Then explain to me how the folks in the valley and in Sherrill don't have the high cost we have. Don't know how they're doing it but I'm sure something can be done if these little communities are managing to do so.

[dgriffin]

I don't have an answer, Bz. I don't know the actual facts. Are they customers of NatGrid or do they have municipals? If NatGrid, could the company lower rates down there to motivate usage?

I'm just here to tell ya that I've been around a few years more than you (not true, but I'm buttering you up) and it's all about greed! When we all are using the new CFL bulbs and getting
great savings in our electricity use, the power companies will raise rates so their bottom line doesn't go down. Trust me.

[bobbbiez]

Yeah I know that, but our city leaders should start to follow the valley and Sherrill's examples and find other sensible ways to ease the burden on all us folks, especially our seniors who have to live on fixed incomes.

ps: You'll never find enough butter for that my friend. ;D

[dgriffin]

I agree that reasonable alternative forms of energy that are better for us and the environment are preferable and should be pursued. I'm just not looking to see my bills go down, although that would certainly be nice.

In fact, I thought I put it up somewhere on the Busy Corner last year, a list of energy costs per kilowatt hour by type of production ... coal, oil, wind, solar, etc. Cheapest was coal, most expensive was solar and wind I think was second most expensive. Those figures can change, of course, depending upon how much equipment is produced by manufacturers.

[Ralph]

Unfortunately Dave is correct as far as National Grid goes. The valley has its own municipal power, which is why theirs is lower, I can't speak for Sherrill's.

Utica started looking into this a few years ago and it sort of stalled at a point.

#1 - We need a way to generate the power.
#2 - We need a way to distribute it......which is the main crux of the problem.

Massena started this and I cannot remember the end outcome of it all, but the gist of it is the only distribution lines available are the ones owned by.....

......you guessed it, National Grid.

There IS a process one acquires the lines for a set price, but it is long and costly at any rate as well as taking a number of years from the first onset. Very complicated!

I think the best way we can help ourselves is to take every energy savings hint we can and utilize it as best we can. Living in the city also limits what can be done vs living in the country.
Or you can read it as "what we can and can't get away with".

Unless we can become totally dependent on ourselves, it is a lose-lose situation no matter where or who we look to.

[clarencebunsen]

Just to be clear:
Are we talking about turning the distribution of electricity over to the people who can't maintain a sewer system or turning the generation & distribution of electricity over to the people who leave a downtown traffic signal non-functional for weeks while waiting for parts?

How much is electricity worth to you in January? I had a meeting in Albany the weekend of the ice storm this winter. On the thruway Saturday morning we passed a convoy of National Grid trucks literally miles long heading to the storm damage. I try to picture the Utica DPW responding to a similar scenario and the mental image isn't pretty.

When I have looked at proposals for municipal power systems, the numbers always appeared cooked to me, particularly on the expense side. I lot of things seem to get left out, things like reserving for eventual replacement of equipment. I don't think I have ever seen replacement of lost tax revenue (replacing a tax paying entity with a government one) considered in the budget.

[dgriffin]

Good point, CB.
Ralph: When I was a resident of the Town of Geddes in the early 1970's, we were customers of Solvay Electric, a municipal power company. I may be wrong, but I got the impression it was largely a paper operation, siphoning off the power and the cheap rates going to the big industries in town, Solvay Process and Crucible Steel. I'd get a bill from an operation called Solvay Electric, but I never saw a building or a truck with that name on it. They certainly didn't generate the energy and I sort of doubt they maintained the lines. I never knew how that arrangement had come about, but of course it was in an earlier day of corporate cooperation (which of course followed an even earlier day of Robber Baron non-cooperation.)

[Swimmy]

Here in Endicott, the village part is municipal. So, I pay a small monthly rate by comparison to national grid or nyseg. For the municipal, Endicott has its own lighting department. Apparently, they own a stake in some power generation in either buffalo or oswego. I remember reading about it, but can't remember where. Based on this investment, the village can offer cheaper rates. Perhaps, that is an option Utica could look into, invest in a power generation plant and get a discounted rate.

Anywhooo, I think the best investment is solar power. I read that the energy the Sun bestows upon the Earth in one day is significantly more than the entire human population could use in one year. Once the technology exists to convert the sun light into electricity more efficiently, I think you'll see a lot of solar panels popping up on roof tops. In theory, you could have a battery storage center that stores electricity collected from solar panels and transmit it to the regions of the country that do not receive enough sunlight.

[WestmoGuy]

We are actively researching Solar Power for our house. Problem is, nobody here in the immediate area. Closest real dealer I can find in Syracuse. Will be well worth the investment ( and tax credits)

[frankcor]

WestmoGuy, what kind of power are you looking for? Electrical? Heat? Domestic water?

[dgriffin]

Apr 15, 2009 10:56:05 GMT -5 frankcor said:

WestmoGuy, what kind of power are you looking for? Electrical? Heat? Domestic water?

That's the great thing about solar, It can be energy already in the form you want it. It directly produces heat and hot water, while a one step conversion is required for electricity.

Taking wind as an example of the other end of the conversion spectrum, it first has to be converted to electricity, then that has to be converted to heat in order to warm your home.

Of course, the efficiency of the collectors can change the equation and the overall efficiencies of the system.