|
|
Post by tanouryjr on Mar 5, 2009 18:26:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by frankcor on Mar 5, 2009 22:10:26 GMT -5
Is it possible that the increase in the number of unemployed persons is related, at least in part, to the increase in unemployment insurance benefits?
|
|
|
|
Post by tanouryjr on Mar 5, 2009 23:24:14 GMT -5
I don't think so Frank. Depends on what increase you're talking about. We have been going downhill economically for decades. And I doubt people actually QUIT their jobs to seek unemployment, especially when it only lasts 6 months. There's simply not enough jobs here and the ones that are here pay 8-9 dollars an hour. Of course there are exceptions, but the demand is way higher than the supply. I have a friend that has a Masters Degree and is working at the mall. He can't find a job anywhere and is planning on moving to Albany for a job he just got offered.
|
|
|
|
Post by frankcor on Mar 6, 2009 7:07:56 GMT -5
I could be wrong but the federal rules changed last July extending the benefits an additional 13 or 26(?) weeks and increased the dollar value. It might be coincidence that unemployment claims reached a new high that same month.
It might also be coincidence that the improved benefits cease at the end of this year. Am I being too cynical to think a congress would sunset a benefit like that just prior to a re-election cycle to give themselves a nice juicy campaign promise to make?
And maybe it's just another coincidence that the stimulus package increased benefits again just as the numbers start another surge.
|
|
|
|
Post by dgriffin on Mar 6, 2009 9:06:29 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by dgriffin on Mar 6, 2009 9:15:22 GMT -5
Re unemployment: I keep thinking about our discussion of population decrease from Albany west and the particular study that was cited. And how it said that a trend seldom reverses. I think Upstate (what I call the "real upstate") is dieing.  Will the last person to leave upstate New York please turn off the lights..... 2008 NY BUDGET BLOWOUT: 88 NEW FEES, TAXES,,, 18% tax on soda, iPod tax, movie theater tax, sporting event tax, taxi tax, bus tax, limo tax, cable TV tax, radio tax, clothing tax... HA HA HA HA HA AND HA Costlier driving with the repeal of the 8-cents-per-gallon sales tax cap on motor and diesel motor fuel, plus and increase in the auto rental tax. Tuition increases at SUNY and CUNY, $620 and $600 a year respectively. A 50 cent tax on cigars. The current tax is equal to 37% of the wholesale price, or 34 cents a cigar. activitypit.ning.com/forum/topics/ny-budget-blowout-88-new-fees |
|
|
|
Post by tanouryjr on Mar 6, 2009 15:23:21 GMT -5
Very interesting points. And, Dave, Upstate isn't "dieing" it's being MURDERED. By our very own representation.
|
|
|
|
Post by dgriffin on Mar 6, 2009 23:12:12 GMT -5
Very interesting points. And, Dave, Upstate isn't "dieing" it's being MURDERED. By our very own representation. Larry, I know you're busy, but when you have the time, I'd like to hear your argument for that. I tend to think Upstate is dying a natural economic death. No more is there reason to ship goods west via the Erie (now Barge) Canal. Manufacturing has not only left the valley, but the nation. The logging industry is gone, as is the paper industry. Engineering, Development and Software companies, if they're not overseas, tend to head south and west. Tourism depends upon people having extra money to travel. New York State apparently is among those states with the highest taxes in the nation, and we're about to witness a perfect storm of increases that will seal our fate....as in DEAD. That's my humble overstated opinion. I'm certainly no fan of your representatives in CNY, yourself excluded. Nor am I very excited about any office holders in my area. I think you're a hard worker and a great guy, Larry. But all the legislators in all the counties in New York State aren't going to change the arithmetic, in my view. When you have the time, name me the 3 most important things that legislatures anywhere should be doing to reach into the jaws of death and resurrect the patient. Then maybe I'll begin to have hope that you're correct. Meanwhile, this is the only future I see.  |
|
|
|
Post by frankcor on Mar 6, 2009 23:40:58 GMT -5
I'm certain I could misinterpret Larry's intent, but I can offer what I took it to mean until he comes along to speak his own mind..
To me, it means that we continue to elect leaders who are completely unable to curb our thirst for government services. We continue to pay for services that we cannot afford. In doing so, we have created an environment in which business struggles to survive and jobs are driven from our region.
In other words, WE are murdering Upstate NY.
|
|
|
|
Post by dgriffin on Mar 7, 2009 8:49:51 GMT -5
Well put, Frank, and I certainly can't argue with those points. Those are things the politicians should NOT do and behavior we the people should NOT condone. In principle.
Politicians are not addressing principles; they're addressing policy. The classic example of this is, "how do we spend money the feds are giving us," rather than "SHOULD the feds be taking our money and giving (some of) it back to us."
"Not my yob, mon," we often hear from local solons. "I'm just the payroll clerk."
I don't think we'll see the end of redistribution of income very soon, however. It's a type of control, preventing the haves and have nots from getting too far apart, as in a third world country where pretty soon revolution breaks out.
So I'm not sure we'll ever be rid of government services. At best, we may only be able to save ourselves duplicate and even unnecessary services. To do that, we must get rid of local government, one of the biggest wastes of resource in America.
Yeah, I know. What if we wind up with a massive federal bureaucracy that sees all, knows all and controls all? I said, what if we wind up with .............
|
|
|
|
Post by tanouryjr on Mar 8, 2009 7:41:00 GMT -5
Wow, I should have had a cup of coffee before attempting to jump into this one, haha. Dave, you bring up some great points. And Frank pretty much got the drift of what I meant.
One day a couple years ago, I went to Tompkins County Community College to watch one of my little cousins basketball games. I happened to be sitting next to a Onondaga County Legislator and we started stalking. I told him I was into politics in Oneida County. He laughed. I asked him what was so funny. He said, "no offense, but you know how NYS is the most dysfunctional legislature in the country?" I said "sure." He then said, candidly, "well, Oneida County is considered the most dysfunctional is NYS." At first I didn't know how to take him (whether to get mad or not). But he made a good point. He went on to say that people across the state look at Oneida County like a whole other world.
It's not US, or the PEOPLE here, it's our representives. Which, I gues Frank has a point, that does mean it's us, because we keep sending them to the Capitals to represent us.
I say we're being Murdered because, although all of Upstate seems to be "dieing," that doesn't mean you don't go down without a fight. It seems our representatives either lack the intellectual capacity to see what is happening, or they simply don't care and are more worried about keeping their piece of the pie. Look at Boehlert. He didn't live here for years. Kept a residence in order to keep his seat and then booked as soon as he retired. I'd love to go further into my reasoning, but I'm trying to temper my controversial side, lol.
Here's an analogy for ya...If a man is dieing of a terminal disease, does it mean it's not murder if I walk in one day and shoot him? We may be dieing but that is all the more reason for our representatives to fight harder to reform and/or get rid of the Empire Development Zones, Reform Campaign Finance, get Creative in giving Upstate more leverage in state government, lower taxes and bogus regulations that are killing small businesses Upstate, reform our educational system, root out corruption, overhaul Medicaid/healthcare, and fight like hell to eliminate the millions of layers of government and quasi-government agencies (Authorities) in NYS.
Please follow-up with more questions because it's rather early, so I'm sure we can get into more detail on any of these topics. lol
|
|
|
|
Post by frankcor on Mar 8, 2009 8:18:56 GMT -5
I listen to what our representatives say they will do if elected. Then I watch what they do and I'm immediately struck with a disconnect. As Judge Judy says, "If it doesn't make sense, it's a lie."
So my only logical conclusion from observing what they do is that their real purpose for getting elected was to do favors for people who can help them get re-elected.
|
|
|
|
Post by frankcor on Mar 8, 2009 8:28:58 GMT -5
Joe Griffo provides a wonderful illustration of my point above.
When he was campaigning for his first term as State Senator, he told me he wanted to go to Albany to fight for the people of this region.
After being elected, the very first vote that he cast as a brand new senator was for the appointment of Thomas DiNapoli as NY State Comptroller. DiNapoli was a fellow legislator who did NOT make the list of qualified people that was created by a bi-partisan council of fiscal experts formed by the governor, assembly and senate.
When asked why he voted for the unqualified colleague he said his vote was to protect the integrity of the institution of the legislature.
What he said: fight for the people
What he did: fight for the institution
What am I to believe?
|
|
|
|
Post by dgriffin on Mar 8, 2009 9:21:58 GMT -5
We're back to the Mr. Smith Syndrome, as in "Goes to Washington." Not to excuse Griffo, nor the NYS Legislature, but it's a totally controlled environment. Think Shelly Silver and Old Joe Bruno. The Assemblyman you elect absolutely cannot get a piece of legislation before the legislature unless he plays ball and pays his dues, and unless that proposed bill agrees with what the leadership wants to happen in the state, often a compromise between upstate and downstate interests. And even if he could, the other puppets would vote it down. I'm sure Griffo viewed his DiNapoli vote as being "cooperative so that the greater good might someday be accomplished." Ha! The bottom line is that while we elect representatives, we get no representation. Another reason why, before getting out of my comfortable chair on a wet morning in early November, I always ask myself if it's worth the short drive to the polling place.
Larry, I think the problem with Oneida County (or any county in NYS, for that matter) is a lack of a realistic vision. "Upstate is dying" means jobs are leaving, taxes are increasing, etc., etc. Problem is, no one wants to accept it ... it's like the first stage of grief ... and everyone is forever playing up a paradigm of industry and jobs that is gone, gone forever, staked through the heart!
But if we were to accept our demise as fait accompli and get on with planning what Mohawk Valley will look like after passing over into the economic hereafter, I think we'd all be doing ourselves a great favor.
Some sunny and warm weekend this coming June, a wide-eyed tourist will sit down on a mountaintop boulder in the Adirondacks and wonder at the beauty and loveliness of
of the land, unaware that a hundred years ago loggers and quarrymen sat lamenting the passing of their era. What Old Pete the Logger should have been thinking about was setting up an ice cream stand for the coming of a new age. But Pete had only just heard about automobiles and didn't think they'd amount to much more than toys.
That said, a legislative body is never going to become an association of seers. That's why we have businessmen and capitalism.
|
|
|
|
Post by dan on Mar 8, 2009 11:39:06 GMT -5
"But if we were to accept our demise as fait accompli and get on with planning what Mohawk Valley will look like after passing over into the economic hereafter, I think we'd all be doing ourselves a great favor."
So, just to Devils Advocate this thing:
Lets assume the fate of Upstate NY is written and it doesn't end well. We are currently dealing with a static model that doesn't take into account various factors of time, changing policies, changing population densities and attitudes. I think we are about 1/3rd of the way through a 20 - 30 year upheaval that will leave the economic and political faces of this country unrecognizable when we are through. When we come out of the other side of the wormhole (or rat hole, as it may be) what plans will we have made to shape our own future? Do we call it game over, bottom of the 9th with 2 outs, 15 seconds on the clock and 25 yards to go, or do we begin the process now to position ourselves for the future? I'm not advocating a government response (sorry Larry) but instead I'm advocating a personal response, an individual response that includes hunkering down, protecting your own assets, making better personal decisions instead of boneheaded, blindly follow along groupthink decisions and taking the responsibility to fend for yourselves. If you fail, you fail honestly, rather than blaming the moron that you kept re-electing to office when you knew deep down he or she was the above-mentioned moron.
|
|
