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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 24, 2009 21:45:34 GMT -5
 Well I'm not surprised to see that legislators in California want to legalize marijuana. CA is so far in debt and I know they feel legalizing pot will bring them out of their debt. Yeah, they are probably right about that, but they're willing to sacrifice people's health and lives to pull themselves out of the hole they dug for themselves. Don't care what anyone thinks. Having dealt with marijuana addictions and problems with some family members and friends, I know pot "IS" a stepping stone to more dangerous drugs. Make it legal and more people (mostly our young people) will use it and use it in larger amounts. Just what this already sick world needs, another legal intoxicant for all to deal with. 
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Post by Swimmy on Feb 24, 2009 21:59:16 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you on this one, bobbbiez. I think it is a wise idea. By taking it out of the dealers' hands, you will reduce the thrill of breaking the law. It can be taxed and regulated. You can criminalize driving while high, something that is not the case today because then we would be technically endorsing the use. Possession of marijuana, in NY, is no longer a misdemeanor. It's a violation, depending on how much you have.
Some of the reasons why pot is a gateway drug is that some dealers lace it with the harder drugs to cause addictions, no different than lacing tobacco with nicotine. By legalizing it, the state can regulate it more effectively.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 24, 2009 22:34:43 GMT -5
Swimmy, do you really believe that? I'm sorry but I am in total disagreement with legalizing pot. It's not the thrill of breaking the law that so many people use pot. It's because they become addicted to the sh*t. It's a drug! First, I would not trust the government in regulating anything, never mind a drug. If they make it legal then anyone can use it, so as I stated, more people will and will use it in larger amounts. Just what we need. More pot heads walking around our streets. Aren't our streets already dangerous enough? Damn, you just had a kid here in Utica shot and killed for a $5.00 bag of pot. The government regulating it will not stop that. If they can't afford to buy it, they'll still kill for it. Their addiction has no mind. That's the facts of my argument against legalizing marijuana.
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Post by Swimmy on Feb 25, 2009 7:07:49 GMT -5
1. Underage drinking occurs because kids are rebellious and part of the drinking is because of the thrill of breaking the law.
2. Sure you have kids killing over $5 dime bags. There are many reasons for it, on some one else's turf. Stole the drugs. Owed the kid money. Who knows.
3. Where are you coming up with this notion that pot is addictive? From all my research on it, it is NOT addictive, unless it's laced with something that is.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 25, 2009 9:16:27 GMT -5
Swimmy, I'll disagree on the addiction part of your response. I don't know much about Bobbbiez's personal and business life, but I can guess what's she seen that leads to her opinion. There may be a debate about cannabis addiction in the press, but the clinical community accepts the fact that it is addictive. The DSM clearly covers both marijuana dependence as well as abuse.
Abuse involves "recurrent use despite legal, occupational or academic problems," while others note your being high and complain to you. DWI is the major indicator of abuse. Addiction concerns constant use, pre-occupation with use, and the inability to control or eliminate use.
Could the government successfully regulate it? Probably not very well. We're often told it is so in European countries, such as the Nederlands, but culture is everything. The UK has a successful government controlled methadone program for heroin addicts, but in the US the same kind of effort is plagued with crime and abuse.
It's interesting that the tobacco-free lobby has successfully reduced the availability of that product to minors. So, cannabis use is now skyrocketing among those under 18. If it is indeed a gateway drug, we're soon going to find out, big time.
Marijuana use can certainly lead to other drugs. Every addiction client I ever had when I worked in a rehab would verify that statement. In fact, they would make it more strongly than I have. But as is usual in America, we don't ask questions of the right people. Don't ask a college professor (unless he's a physician), ask an addict.
And the next time anyone visits the doctor, ask him or her.
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Post by jon hynes on Feb 25, 2009 10:04:36 GMT -5
1. Underage drinking occurs because kids are rebellious and part of the drinking is because of the thrill of breaking the law. 2. Sure you have kids killing over $5 dime bags. There are many reasons for it, on some one else's turf. Stole the drugs. Owed the kid money. Who knows. 3. Where are you coming up with this notion that pot is addictive? From all my research on it, it is NOT addictive, unless it's laced with something that is. 1. I'm sure you would find that underage drinking is usually caused by peer pressure, wanting to be grown-up, and a 'feel good' feeling. 3. Either is sex addictive, but you get it once you're going to want more. Then again I wouldn't trust smoking anything anyone gave me, that it wouldn't be laced with something. These guys can't get rich selling nickel bags of the 'pure unadulterated' thing. Might as well smoke corn silk. |
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Post by Swimmy on Feb 25, 2009 11:20:01 GMT -5
Swimmy, I'll disagree on the addiction part of your response. I don't know much about Bobbbiez's personal and business life, but I can guess what's she seen that leads to her opinion. There may be a debate about cannabis addiction in the press, but the clinical community accepts the fact that it is addictive. The DSM clearly covers both marijuana dependence as well as abuse. Abuse involves "recurrent use despite legal, occupational or academic problems," while others note your being high and complain to you. DWI is the major indicator of abuse. Addiction concerns constant use, pre-occupation with use, and the inability to control or eliminate use. Could the government successfully regulate it? Probably not very well. We're often told it is so in European countries, such as the Nederlands, but culture is everything. The UK has a successful government controlled methadone program for heroin addicts, but in the US the same kind of effort is plagued with crime and abuse. It's interesting that the tobacco-free lobby has successfully reduced the availability of that product to minors. So, cannabis use is now skyrocketing among those under 18. If it is indeed a gateway drug, we're soon going to find out, big time. Marijuana use can certainly lead to other drugs. Every addiction client I ever had when I worked in a rehab would verify that statement. In fact, they would make it more strongly than I have. But as is usual in America, we don't ask questions of the right people. Don't ask a college professor (unless he's a physician), ask an addict. And the next time anyone visits the doctor, ask him or her. Perhaps psychologically, and the way the thc makes you feel is addicting, but there is no chemical component in pure cannibalis the makes it addicting, at least not since the last time I researched the issue. |
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Post by Swimmy on Feb 25, 2009 11:23:17 GMT -5
1. Underage drinking occurs because kids are rebellious and part of the drinking is because of the thrill of breaking the law. 2. Sure you have kids killing over $5 dime bags. There are many reasons for it, on some one else's turf. Stole the drugs. Owed the kid money. Who knows. 3. Where are you coming up with this notion that pot is addictive? From all my research on it, it is NOT addictive, unless it's laced with something that is. 1. I'm sure you would find that underage drinking is usually caused by peer pressure, wanting to be grown-up, and a 'feel good' feeling. 3. Either is sex addictive, but you get it once you're going to want more. Then again I wouldn't trust smoking anything anyone gave me, that it wouldn't be laced with something. These guys can't get rich selling nickel bags of the 'pure unadulterated' thing. Might as well smoke corn silk. 1. Agreed, that is another cause, but not the root cause. 3. Ok so let's ban everything that is addictive. Get rid of sex, it's addictive. Get rid of exercise, the natural high from that is addictive and should be banned. Get rid of Lays Potato Chips because no body can have just one! Get rid of kids because, as octomom who is actually 14-mom demonstrates, people can be addicted to having babies. |
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Post by frankcor on Feb 25, 2009 13:07:04 GMT -5
I think we should ban milk -- it's a gateway drug. Every addict I've ever known started by drinking milk.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 25, 2009 13:14:43 GMT -5
Swimmy, I must have missed a turn here, because I'm not sure we're on the same page. The psychoactive chemical in cannabis is THC. As well as making you high, it produces chemical changes in the brain, some now thought to be permanent by researchers. Just as with alcohol and opiates, it can indeed be addictive. We all know people who smoke weed and are not addicted, just as we know many who drink alcohol and are not alcoholics. But addiction is possible from continued use. Granted, not as quickly as from crack cocaine. So ..... what should we ban? Well, nothing in a totally free society. But eventually, when society feels threatened by an activity practiced by its members, whether it's larceny, murder or rape ... or speeding, drunkenness or jaywalking ... laws are enacted to limit or curtail these activities. (Why am I lecturing a lawyer  ) |
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Post by lucy on Feb 25, 2009 13:42:14 GMT -5
Frank is that why you are at the parks trying to get the little kids to drink milk?
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Post by frankcor on Feb 25, 2009 13:44:29 GMT -5
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 25, 2009 13:56:54 GMT -5
Dave, you are so right when you stated former drug addicts are the ones who should be asked concerning smoking marijuana and it leading to much stronger drugs. All I know have stated that exactly. They do know and are willing to admit the truth. I don't know how our legislators who have made such strong laws against smoking cigarettes and constantly promotes people to quit can justifies wanting to legalize another addictive drug or as some need to hear, another addictive habit. Why? ? Only because our legislators can see the almighty f*cking $$$$ it will put in their pockets!
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 25, 2009 17:47:27 GMT -5
I do think the restrictions will be coming off pot smoking. This is a permissive society. And the politicians bend in the wind for any so-called popular causes, which are usually highly publicized issues brought to us by a highly prejudiced small sample of citizens. As soon as someone figures out a way to make money from legalized marijuana, you'll begin to see newspaper ads trumpeting legalization from some business group calling itself "The Committee For Choice Resulting In Moral Probity For The Children." Or add your own buzz words.
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Post by stoney on Feb 26, 2009 10:23:07 GMT -5
I agree 100% with Swimmy.
And Dave, nicotine addiction is also in the DSM, so that really means very little as far as what should be banned in society.
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Well I'm not surprised to see that legislators in California want to legalize marijuana. CA is so far in debt and I know they feel legalizing pot will bring them out of their debt. Yeah, they are probably right about that, but they're willing to sacrifice people's health and lives to pull themselves out of the hole they dug for themselves. 
) 