Identity Crisis: Strike hits the spot

[tanouryjr]

strikeslip.blogspot.com/2009/02/maintaining-identity-advancing-region.html

Another great piece from Strikeslip! I would like to ask, again, one of his questions; who would challenge this? And if they aren't willing to stand up and relveal themselves, then what is the excuse for simply not doing it NOW? No more excuses.

[dgriffin]

Strike advances reasonable arguments. Tell me, is the Chamber of Commerce in any way supported by taxpayer dollars? Or is it wholly supported by its business members.

[Swimmy]

As with everything else around here, I would not be surprised if it fell in line with the other bottom feeders and did fund itself from taxpayer monies...

[dgriffin]

I think it's an important question. I'd like to know, before I comment on the activities and determinations of a privately funded organization, where members dig into their own pockets to pay their own way as they move in a self-determined direction.
If, on the other hand, we're paying part of the freight, that would alter my attitude.

[dgriffin]

I've emailed my question to a Mr. Frank Elias of MV Chamber.

[dgriffin]

I've heard back from Frank Elias and the MV CofC is a privately funded organization, very careful in the words of its director to accept no government aid. His written response to me was quite interesting, and I'm waiting to hear if he will allow me to post it here.

[dgriffin]

Here is a copy of my email to Frank Elias, followed by his response:

Good Morning Mr. Elias,

I've been having an online conversation in regards to your organization and a question has arisen regarding financial support of the MV Chamber of Commerce. My understanding is that your activities, office, etc., is funded by member dues. Can you tell me if the MV Chamber derives income from the government or any entity supported by taxpayers in general? Or would you characterize the Chamber's income and funding being solely from private sources.
Thanks very much,
David Griffin



David,

Since you are having an online conversation regarding the chamber, I'm sure
you may have additional questions for which I would like to speak directly
with you, but you are correct, the MV Chamber of Commerce is funded solely
through our membership. We act on behalf of our members and the communities
we serve to promote a positive economic climate in the Mohawk Valley and
within New York State.

As the areas largest, and only true regional chamber of commerce we take an
active role in advocating for consolidation of government, budget reform,
accountability of government, and we are the only local chamber between
Syracuse and Albany that screens and endorses candidates seeking political
office. We are the watchdog for businesses we serve, and because of this we
are very sensitive not to receive any form of government funding.

During these times when our government seems to be moving towards socialism
on many fronts, it is the Chamber of Commerce that will stand in opposition
to increasing government regulation. We have been doing a lot of this and
very soon, you will see our official public policy positions posted on our
web site. Again, we are the only local chamber to take official policy
positions in opposition to proposals and actions by government which may
hurt our business community, so again, NO, we do not accept any government
funding.


Sincerely,
Frank Elias
President
Mohawk Valley Chamber of Commerce
200 Genesee Street, Suite One
Utica, New York 13502
Phone: [phone] ext. 229



That's a very interesting last paragraph.

[dgriffin]

In his response to me, allowing me to post his answer, Frank explained further his answer to the argument advanced by Strikeslip. I feel I should post this also.

"Check out our new web site, this has been in the works for some time, and is
still a work in progress, but moving in all the right directions.
www.mvchamber.org

Strikeslip often calls for a name change, and quite honestly, it's beside
the point; it's what we do that is important. I too have had a lot of time
to reflect on the name, and have discussed with many individuals locally,
and from around NYS. Bottom line, most individuals want a regional chamber
of commerce, and that is what we are. We are the areas single, largest, and
most active regional chamber of commerce. In reference to the term Utica, I
have said, and will continue to say I am supportive of Utica. But to this
end, we are the Mohawk Valley Chamber of Commerce based in Utica New York
and Utica New York is the hub of this Mohawk Valley Region.

Say what you will, argue the geographic boundaries within the Mohawk Valley,
bottom line, Utica is the largest, most influential city within the Mohawk
Valley and we are the hub. We should accept this, recognize the honor and
view it as a strength. I am very supportive of Utica, have a business here,
believe in this city, and would like to propose that as the hub city of the
Mohawk Valley we as Utican's should all be proud. Again, we are the Mohawk
Valley Chamber of Commerce based in Utica New York and Utica is the hub of
this Mohawk Valley Region. Stand tall, be proud, and move forward!"


I have no background on this issue and no standing in the argument. But if I were a member of this private organization and felt I wanted more emphasis on the Utica name, I'd push for more visibility of the city's name in the electronic and printed materials. I would imagine it would be difficult, however, for Frank to sell the regional concept ... especially to businesses outside the Utica immediate area ... with "Utica" plastered all over the sales materials. And Frank evidently really believes that the regional concept is best. It certainly would make for a larger endeavor, and that won't hurt his own prospects.

[rrogers40]

The fact is this- the more they encompass the stronger they are going to be. Besides, Utica doesn't have everything a business wants- but lets say Rome does. By having the MVCoC pushing for that business to come to Rome, as Rome is encompasses within its region, doesn't it help out not just Rome but Utica as well?

The fact is this- go to Google earth and look at the satellite imagery of Central New York, the Mohawk Valley, or whatever. Notice the population density around Utica- New Hartford, Yorkville, New York Mills, Deerfield are all on top of each other. It is essentially a "super city" and is only a matter of years before they start combining because of there budget issues and such. Especially New York Mills, Whitesbro, and Yorkville.

Why would you want something that only represents Utica? You do know that the edge of what is essentially Utica is only roughly 10 miles away from Herkimer? And ofcourse roughly 10 Miles away from Rome. Of course we don't really live in the Mohawk Valley- and Central New York doesn't sound as nice as "Valley".

[tanouryjr]

Wow. I guess I started some good conversation, or was it Strike? LOL. Anyways, it's great to see it being discussed. Frank is actually a great guy. I happen to disagree with his logic here though. I understand the whole "regional" approach, and support that idea. However, simply naming something MV doesn't help the overall goal. The first rule of marketing is name recognition. Utica has that, as was evidenced by the downstate congressman's statements and the statements on SNL.

I like where Ruan is going with this idea of a "super city," otherwise called a metro area. Now, if we are truly going regional, why does Rome still have their own Chamber with the Rome name? And since they do, why is ours still promoting Rome? I believe Rome should have their own and be the lead for the Western and Northern part of Oneida County. This one should be the Greater Utica Are Chamber and encompass the eastern portion of the County like Utica, New Hartford, Whitestown, New York Mills, etc.

And he's right, they don't receive taxpayer dollars. However, if I had my way, they would have received the contract for visitors and tourism promotion. We should have just went with the Chamber instead of doing the same thing over again expecting a different result. But hey, who am I?

I don't think this is anything against the Chamber, but more of a difference in approaches to the best marketing strategies.

[dgriffin]

Well, that's true, Larry. But if I were a Rome businessman being asked to join a regional Chamber of Commerce ... and especially if I was already a member of he tRome's CofC ... I'd want to know why the organization recruiting me had given prominence to another city, e.g. The Utica and MV Cof C, or the MV CofC at Utica, or whatever it was called. Maybe Frank's pitch to prospects goes something like, "you can stay in your local C of C, but for regional coverage as a wider and bigger market, come join us in the MV Cof C, too." Essentially, then, Utica has no CofC. But Frank would probably say that's not true, since much of his activity may be in Utica.

Interesting issue. But to return to my initial point ... if I had one ... the MV Chamber of Commerce is a private organization, supported by members who evidently feel they are spending their money well on a plan that some others outside the organization don't like.

Anyone can disagree with them. And I guess anyone can join.

[tanouryjr]

Good points, Dave. But why do Romans get the chance to join a "local" CofC and Uticans had theirs turned into the "regional" one? The MV Chamber is still really the Utica Area Chamber. If we truly want to consolidate and regionalize, then one would think the Rome Chamber would join with the MV Chamber. Then I would still argue about the Mohawk Valley name, seeing as though that is one of my well known pet peeves. How about one big Oneida County Chamber?

[dgriffin]

Feb 10, 2009 15:48:26 GMT -5 @tanouryjr said:

Good points, Dave. But why do Romans get the chance to join a "local" CofC and Uticans had theirs turned into the "regional" one? The MV Chamber is still really the Utica Area Chamber. If we truly want to consolidate and regionalize, then one would think the Rome Chamber would join with the MV Chamber. Then I would still argue about the Mohawk Valley name, seeing as though that is one of my well known pet peeves. How about one big Oneida County Chamber?

First, I have no vested interest in the issue. I'm just trying to follow the logic of the arguments. It's sort of a hobby of mine.

How about one big Oneida County Chamber?

Well, I guess that name wouldn't be inclusive of the very nearby Herkimer towns, which are certainly prospect territory for a Mohawk Valley Chamber.

I'll take your word that the MV Chamber is still composed of mostly Utica members. So I have to ask, why did the membership support a name change and regional concept proposed by their President? I guess they like the idea. Isn't Frank a Utica businessman?

... why do Romans get the chance to join a "local" CofC and Uticans had theirs turned into the "regional" one?

All it would take is a group of Utica businessmen to form a new Utica Chamber of Commerce. Maybe they could even piggy-back some activities on the MV Chamber. First step would be to determine the level of interest on the part of Utica businessmen.

[Deleted]

The Mohawk Valley Chamber of Commerce. "Looking out for the good old boys". That should be their motto.

[strikeslip]

"I'll take your word that the MV Chamber is still composed of mostly Utica members. So I have to ask, why did the membership support a name change and regional concept proposed by their President? "

My take on this is that New Hartford people are behind this. . . . Most retail has moved out of Utica to New Hartford; there is ethnic bias; there is class bias -- all against Utica.

Unfortunately these people are forgetting that but for Utica's existence, there would be no development of any kind in NH. Utica provided the infrastructure foundation (eg water and sewer) upon which NH is built. Utica provides the customers and the employees in NH's stores. Most importantly, Utica is the only place with any name recognition. NH's rivalry with Utica is destructive of the region. The name "Utica" is NOT "beside the point" . . . it is who we are.

Having resided in Amsterdam for many years, I can tell you that they consider themselves the "Mohawk Valley" and they would have no interest in Utica's CofC representing them. They are more oriented to the "Capital District."

Until this region pulls together as a region -- and I'm speaking of "Greater Utica" rather than the Mohawk Valley -- Neither Greater Utica nor this end of the "Mohawk Valley" are going anywhere.