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Post by concerned on Feb 4, 2009 10:50:06 GMT -5
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 4, 2009 10:55:22 GMT -5
You might call it investment journalism. With publicity, if the plan succeeds, that many more advertisers for the OD.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 4, 2009 13:58:45 GMT -5
That is just what Utica needs, another shopping center. I wonder how much tax increment financing will go along with this pipedream.
Who wants to live in a tinderbox of oil soaked plank floors and beams from the days when the savage arms manufactured guns there? A fire in that building would certainly take some lives if there were apartments built on the upper floors. I don't see how it could be made firesafe for residential use unless it was gutted and all the old wood removed.
I wish ANYONE the best of luck in following a dream, as long as it doesn't involve MY tax money, or allow THEM to evade the same rates of taxation that the rest of us pay.
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Post by lilbump1980 on Feb 4, 2009 14:37:26 GMT -5
From what I am hearing, Oneida County wont have anything really to do with this. They are saying it will be in Herkimer County because most of the Building lies in Herkimer County. So again utica wont gain any revenue.. But wont lose either.
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Post by frankcor on Feb 4, 2009 14:56:03 GMT -5
Is this a flashback? I could swear I read the same article in 1980!
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Post by Clipper on Feb 4, 2009 16:37:10 GMT -5
"Most of the building lies in Herkimer County" is more reality than fiction, but the real fact is that a lot of the part lying in Herkimer county also lies in ruins, LOL.
You're right Frank. It IS a flashback to the 80's, and it fell on it's ass then. The building was in much better shape then also. god bless this guy, as long as he doesn't depend on any government breaks or moneys to realize his fantasy.
Apartments? Who the hell wants to live in a bombed out mill building with a shopping center attached to your luxury loft apartment? Be real! Don't forget the entertainment scene. A bar a few yards away where people get shot and stabbed in the parking lot, and on another vista you can look at another failed industry that has turned into mini warehousing space where CP used to be, along with the fallen down ruins of the rest of the Univac building. Right next door to the North is an old foundry site that most likely has many environmental secrets buried all around it. Yep that is the retirement loft apartment of MY dreams. Let me know when it is ready for occupancy. (NOT)
I love Utica, but where do people come up with some of these hair brained schemes? Why not find a better location for lofts and I would imagine a shopping center in that location will fail as fast as Charlestown did. There are more shopping centers than there are people now.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 4, 2009 17:32:50 GMT -5
 Frankie, you are so right.  Everything they tried in that place folded sooner or later but sooner is the better word. ;D Besides, Frankfort and Utica were fighting over who should be responsible to serve it with different departments, such as fire and etc.  Really can't believe they're even thinking about doing it again. Too far out of the way for most. People today look for convenience 
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 4, 2009 23:08:37 GMT -5
My mom and dad lived in the Steinhorst apartments behind the strip mall on South and Mohawk. It had been a mill, but was redone quite nicely into safely constructed apartments. Nothing on the inside reminded me I was standing in an old factory building.
I'm no expert but accelerated depreciation seems to be the tax trick that makes shopping malls and apartment houses popular with developers. Without it, a lot of construction would have never happened. We wouldn't see so many empty shopping malls. You depreciate your taxable income in the early years so you pay no taxes, and when the higher rate begins to apply, go out of business and sell it to your partners and start all over again.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 4, 2009 23:24:34 GMT -5
Steinhorst was a lot nicer place than anything that I could imagine rising out of the rubble at Charlestown. I think they propose to put loft apartments in basically the same building with the stores and ocmmercial spaces, and that would not be conducive to luxury living in my book.
Emil Steinhorst and his family took much better care of their building than Gaetano has taken with the old Charlestown.
When your mom and dad lived at Stei]nhorst Apartments, I imagine it was a much nicer neighborhood than it is now.
Where would a person go for a walk around Charlestown, if not to walk past the beer joint and walk the grounds of the masonic home. You would not walk along the shoulders of Bleecker St to the east of the place, and I sure would not find much enjoyment in running or jogging on 5S.
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Post by denise on Feb 5, 2009 12:12:04 GMT -5
I loved Charlestown and spent quite a bit of time there. As a teenager, there wasn't a whole lot you get to living in West Frankfort, but we could bike to Charlestown! I remember a few of my friends had jobs there.
I would love to see outlet shopping in or near Utica. I know many people who travel out to the ones between Syracuse and Rochester. I'm not sure that Charlestown is the place though! I think the set-up and the maze of hallways were just too bizarre.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 5, 2009 12:26:47 GMT -5
The only outlet shopping areas that seem to survive and thrive is Reading Pennsylvania, and Pigeon Forge Tennessee. I have been to many other areas while driving buses over the years, and most were overpriced, due to the fact that they located in brand new "outlet malls" and the rents were ridiculous. No savings to be found in those places. Pigeon Forge, Tn, has a mix of small outlets, individual outlet stores, and modern outlet malls. The bargains are found in the smaller outlets and older centers.
Kathy and I stopped at an outlet mall in Wythville, Va. on our way home from Utica at Christmas time. I remember this particular outlet mall thriving in the 80's but now it sits almost deserted with about 50 stores, and only about 5 or 6 occupied. THAT place is located only about 1/4 mile off of TWO interstate highways, I-77 and I-81, and it has failed.
Charlestown had some great stores and great bargains. I think it could have been developed better, with more restaurants and food vendors, and the merchandise offered by some outlets was simply reject crap and seconds. Making it a "destination" would have insured success.
I think Charlestown could have been marketed better also. I don't think it was advertised as well as it could have been. It was in some of the tourbus operator's magazines, etc. but could have been marketed more vigorously to senior citizen groups, travel agencies and other outlets that organize travel and bus trips. The wine country, Alexandria Bay, trips that simply go north to view the scenery and stop for lunch, all fill up quickly, due to good advertising and promotion to the correct demographics.
I really cannot get enthused or be too hopeful that another shopping center in the old Charlestown building will succeed. As I said previously, as long as it isn't my money or taxes supporting this effort, I wish them success.
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Post by Ralph on Feb 5, 2009 13:31:48 GMT -5
I don't think anything is going to bring that place back, it's just too far gone. The only reason they haven't leveled the damn thing is because of the environmental concerns for what is underneath it all.
Good luck with it, but I think it will quick become a bigger money pit than it already is.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 5, 2009 19:37:28 GMT -5
Clipper, what was that place in Virginia that was just north (I think) of Williamsburg? The Pottery Mill or something? It was an indoor/outdoor HUGE outlet ..... well, it wasn't a mall, it was more like an old factory building and storage yards.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 6, 2009 1:20:16 GMT -5
That was called Williamsburg Pottery, and I think it is still there. It was a "must" on all bus trips to Colonial Williamsburg. The driver used to get a commission on all sales to people on his bus, and sometimes the cash payment from Williamsburg Pottery would be upward of $100. Souvenir stores in Washington DC used to give the drivers 40% of sales, but they were only able to do that because the souvenir markup was like 400%. Reading, PA outlets always gave the driver either merchandise or cash also.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 6, 2009 10:49:36 GMT -5
Walking through the place with Mrs. Dave, I eventually began to pray that at some hour in the near future, the place would come to an end. It was huge! We were headed north to DC from Williamsburg that afternoon, and I DID notice quite a few buses in the parking lot. Now I know why!
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Frankie, you are so right. 
