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Post by dgriffin on Nov 20, 2008 19:55:48 GMT -5
Attention American Auto MakersBy Dave St. John"I think the first thing you need before you get a dime of our hard earned tax dollars is some very plain, honest talk. Talk you should have listened to and heeded years ago." "I'm retired now. That means I live on a combination of social security and monies I have saved and invested years ago in preparation for the days when I would stop working and kick back a bit. I'm not wealthy; I am comfortable, although my comfort level is diminishing each day that our congress and folks like you want a piece of what I have saved to bail your sorry asses out of a fix of your own making." www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/attention_american_auto_makers.html
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Post by Ralph on Nov 21, 2008 1:24:20 GMT -5
Short, sweet and to the point.
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 21, 2008 8:40:09 GMT -5
Don't miss the comments that follow the article. Some are very good. I liked: "How many MBA's does it take to change a light bulb? None. MBA's don't change light bulbs, they manage the people that do."
And also the following: "There are two important issues the bailout will not resolve. First, a bailout will not bring buyers to Big 3 showrooms. Buyers have been avoiding the Big 3 car lots in droves for years. No amount of short term investment will bring them back soon enough to avoid another cash crunch in the near future. Second, a bailout will not upgrade the quality of the Big 3 autos in the short term. Detroit's biggest competitors are not the low priced Kia's and Hyundai's but rather the costlier Honda's and Toyota's. American buyers have rewarded Honda and Toyota for building cars that excel at long-term reliability. Detroit will not attract these buyers back when they equal the Japanese quality, they can only win them back by exceeding Japanese quality. This will be a decade long endeavor for the Big 3 (or 2, or 1). Bankruptcy rather than a bailout will begin this process sooner. Until the unions change their mindset to focus on quality instead of job protection the Big 3 will fall further behind their foreign competition. Had they done this 10 to 20 years ago they wouldn't have to worry about catastrophic job losses right now."
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Post by Clipper on Nov 21, 2008 10:34:53 GMT -5
As I said in a different thread earlier. Let them close the plants in Detroit, declare bankruptcy, and move SOUTH where people appreciate having a job, don't organize as often, and will work for a living wage, probably starting at less than half what the autoworkers have worked for in Detroit. There are plenty of large facilities here from closed up textile industries and furniture plants.
That, coupled with all of Dave's points MIGHT make them competitive with Honda and Toyota.
Don't poo poo the efforts of Hundai and Kia, or their quality. A friend here sells Kia's and formerly sold Fords for many years. He says he has made TWICE as much money and sold TWICE as many Kia's as he did Fords in the last couple of years. One thing that foreign makers have done is give a lifetime or 100K warranty, and have the confidence in the quality of their product to do so. American automakers give you a limited warranty and then try to screw you out of the repairs when they DO become necessary.
I personally think you get more VALUE for your money in a Kia than you do in a Ford. Ford's lesser models are very stripped and LOOK like it. I recently saw a guy unlocking his ford truck with a KEY, and when he opened the door, there were WINDOW CRANKS on the doors. How chintzy is that?
We presently have two chrysler products sitting in the driveway, but that could change at our next trade. Probably will!
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 21, 2008 11:45:01 GMT -5
When my son told me he was going to dump his Dodge truck and buy a Hyundai Elantra, I couldn't blame him for wanting to get rid of the Dodge (mucho problems for him), but I was concerned about initial reports of questionable quality regarding Hyundai. But when I researched on the Internet, I found their quality had improved tremendously in the last few years and is now rated second, after Toyota. Tha's pretty damned good and he hasn't had a problem with the car since buying it last winter. Clip, we've had two Chryslers in the past ten years or so (my wife's convertibles) and I can't say I'm a fan. The first car's head blew at 120K. We got rid of the second, a Sebring, before anything happened, and I can't say I had any unusual mechanical problem with it. But what dumb engineering! E.g., You couldn't push the interior button to unlock the trunk after the ignition was off. I can't tell you how many times I swore a scarlet streak after turning off the engine and trying to open the trunk! And there were other similar dumb design mistakes, I thought. We'd go out in the driveway in the morning and find the battery dead and the trunk lid partially open. I accused my wife of hitting the trunk button with her knee when she exited the car. But after this happened a number of times, I realized what was going on. At night, in the kitchen, some 50 feet away from the car, she would rummage through her purse and inadvertently push the key fob up against something and push the trunk button! The unlock receiver was way too sensitive. My Toyota is intuitive. If you think a knob or button should do thus-and-thus, 99.9 % of the time it does. And when it doesn't, it does something even better! The first month I owned the truck, you'd hear me often say, "Oh, hey, that's neat!"
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Post by Clipper on Nov 21, 2008 12:05:49 GMT -5
I bought my dodge truck specifically to pull our fifth wheel camper. I bought it mainly for the specs concerning horsepower, and torgue, and the tongue weight and towing capacity. Now Toyota has a 5.7 liter engine, that is supposed to have comparable towing capacity to my hemi 5.7.
My neighbor has a tundra, and he loves it. It was more expensive than my dodge, but it is also more plush inside, and seems to be very well built. He says it has plenty of power, and the torgue and towing numbers are equal or better than my dodge.
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 21, 2008 15:38:03 GMT -5
I love my Tundra. But I thought I'd heard it wasn't a good towing truck. Maybe that's changed. It wasn't a power thing, as I remember, maybe it was a frame or suspension issue.
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Post by Clipper on Nov 21, 2008 16:10:47 GMT -5
That could very well be. I would have to check that out before I bought one, as our fifth wheel hitch is big and beefy and there are heavy steel plates bolted to the frame to reinforce it.
My Dodge DOES have a seriously substantial frame and suspension.
I am actually quite happy with the truck I have now, but when it comes time to trade, will there be a Chrysler Corp. and will it be worth anything on a trade? I almost traded it this fall, but it only has 26K miles on it, and it is a 2005. I really don't want to prolong the agony of having a truck payment, haha.
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Post by lrtill on Nov 22, 2008 12:01:48 GMT -5
I have a 2006 Subaru Tribeca that is only worth about 1/3 of what owe on for a trade in. There is no market for large gas burning vehicles. Maybe it will get a little better IF gas prices stay down, but I doubt it'll ever catch up to what I still owe. It was the single most foolish purchase I've ever made. I'd give anything to be able to get rid of the enormous monthly payment but I'm stuck with it. Not that it's a bad car, it's very nice but I had more money when I bought it than I do now, since I'm unemployed!
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Post by snickers on Nov 24, 2008 9:19:59 GMT -5
We have a GMC Canyon, and two Pontiac Vibes. Love 'em all! We looked at the corresponding Toyota products, and actually decided the GM products were the better buys. No regrets.
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Post by dan on Nov 24, 2008 10:47:51 GMT -5
money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/us-to-plow-another-20-billion-into-citi/258203Not that I agree with everything the automakers have done, but the inequities that are happening in Washington are legion. I don't agree with ANY of the bailouts, but at least the automakers are asking for loans, not handouts and getting treated like the idiot cousins. Washington is trading billions of our dollars to aquire 70% of Citigroup. Isn't that socialisim or did I wake up in the wrong country?
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Post by Clipper on Nov 24, 2008 11:19:23 GMT -5
I don't agree with any of the bailouts either Dan. I have to think that the blame for Detroit's problems should be equally shared with the CEO's and the unions. NOBODY should make the money that autoworkers make for an hourly wage, and nobody should make the money or have the golden parachutes that the CEO's do.
As for bailing out the mortgage industry, and the insurance industry, I have my doubts that it is being handled responsibly either. I also have my doubts as to whether it will work, or will just cause more debt, and forestall the inevitable depression.
I am not an economist, and I never played one on TV, but I really get sick of our government pandering to big business and wall street. I have a problem with the theory that everything in the country can be fixed by THROWING MORE MONEY AT IT!" When does it stop? If we are to suffer a depression, should we be allowing the government to milk us dry and put us in a poor position on a personal level, before it happens?
ALL levels of government are guilty. The present situation with Oneida County is just an example. You make cuts in one place, and while everyone is enthralled in being upset about the cuts, politicians are shoving some pet spending plan up our asses in the name of "progress". Only the poor will suffer with the cuts to codes and the DSS programs. Taking the OTB revenues is only the start. Picente and company will find the money to spend on their cohorts and pet projects while the programs for the middle class and poor will take the bite. EDGE, the new airport, the contract with Million Aire, all pet projects that are feasible, but ill timed. Let us find a cargo airline FIRST and then build a terminal building. Let's get rid of EDGE and the money that is thrown to patrons and pals for doing absolutely nothing.
I would love to know how much insider trading is going on with the market doing what it is right now. I wonder how many were warned ahead of time to bail and take their money out BEFORE their stock fell into the sewer. Maybe insider trading isn't the correct term. What I mean is, how many were forewarned and told to sell, which in turn worsened the impact on the little guy with his retirement hinging on the market.
I, as most citizens, sit helplessly by, while politicians and big business steer our ship onto the rocks. All we can do is hang on and hope for the best at this point. AND PRAY!
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 24, 2008 16:23:14 GMT -5
The articles I'm reading say none of this is working, anyway. The 700 billion dollars, now almost half gone, was like spitting in the wind. One author says banks have trillions of dollars in rotten assets and that the US banking system has failed, but no one will tell us. Games are still being played. I read that one insurance company paid ten million dollars for a large amount of stock in a failing bank. Why? So they could get access to the 4 BILLION dollars the government was slated to give the bank. They were buying their way into the bailout.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2008 5:13:52 GMT -5
As I said in a different thread earlier. Let them close the plants in Detroit, declare bankruptcy, and move SOUTH where people appreciate having a job, don't organize as often, and will work for a living wage, probably starting at less than half what the autoworkers have worked for in Detroit. There are plenty of large facilities here from closed up textile industries and furniture plants. That, coupled with all of Dave's points MIGHT make them competitive with Honda and Toyota. Don't poo poo the efforts of Hundai and Kia, or their quality. A friend here sells Kia's and formerly sold Fords for many years. He says he has made TWICE as much money and sold TWICE as many Kia's as he did Fords in the last couple of years. One thing that foreign makers have done is give a lifetime or 100K warranty, and have the confidence in the quality of their product to do so. American automakers give you a limited warranty and then try to screw you out of the repairs when they DO become necessary. I personally think you get more VALUE for your money in a Kia than you do in a Ford. Ford's lesser models are very stripped and LOOK like it. I recently saw a guy unlocking his ford truck with a KEY, and when he opened the door, there were WINDOW CRANKS on the doors. How chintzy is that? We presently have two chrysler products sitting in the driveway, but that could change at our next trade. Probably will! They have a 100,000 mile warranty because they are junk, & nobody in their right mind & anyone that knows anything about the brands you mentioned would set foot in one without that 100,000 mi. warranty. Go but a Kia or a Hyundai & after a couple years try & trade it in but be ready for a hosing. The resale value on those 2 brands is a joke.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2008 5:28:04 GMT -5
The articles I'm reading say none of this is working, anyway. The 700 billion dollars, now almost half gone, was like spitting in the wind. One author says banks have trillions of dollars in rotten assets and that the US banking system has failed, but no one will tell us. Games are still being played. I read that one insurance company paid ten million dollars for a large amount of stock in a failing bank. Why? So they could get access to the 4 BILLION dollars the government was slated to give the bank. They were buying their way into the bailout. Part of the problem is that there is no leadership from the White House. We have Bush making idiotic boiler plate statements to the press showing that as usual he doesn't have the first inkling of what is happening or how to deal with this crisis. What Wall St. needs is for Bush & his cronies to leave town as soon as possible. Paulson should be fired yesterday. It's too bad we have to wait another few weeks for Bush to leave office. Hopefully the banking industry can survive a few more weeks before this moron leaves office. It's no coincidence that the stock market has climbed since Obama announced his economic team. Wall St. & the banking industry is looking for some leadership from Washington. They sure as hell haven't been getting any from Dubya.
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