Picente's Budget adress

[wcup102]

I just watched the 6 pm news and I have to say I am pissed off to say the least. Picente went on to say how the sheriff patrol should basically be eliminated and he wants to spend 50k to do a study to consolidate. If I was paid 50k for a study I would make it say whatever you wanted. His beef with the sheriff is obviously overflowing to the department itself. Why doesn't he do a study to cut the excessive government costs starting with his chief of staff salary at 80k. Really, now, is that necessary? I'll have to post later as my thoughts are very scrambled and irrational right now and I don't want to spout off without careful thought to avoid mudslinging.

(go figure, that coming from me)

[Deleted]

Picente is full of shit. He's not really out to consolidate anything. This is nothing but a veiled threat against the sheriffs because of the current stalemate in contract negotiations. Do us a favor willya Mr. Picente? Save the taxpayers the 50 grand & shove your grandstanding where the sun don't shine.

[wcup102]

After calming down and some rational thought, I have concluded that eliminating the sheriff patrol to consolidate to a county wide agency, really isn't such a bad idea. Yea thats right, not bad at all. Here's why, If he does away with patrol and consolidates the towns and villages with the sheriff's patrol people, the the sheriff patrol people will get a raise because those people will not take a pay cut to consolidate and every one of them makes more than a deputy. Thanks Mr. Picente, I am in support of your consolidation(and raise)!!!!!!!

[Clipper]

That is one point of view Wcup, but read my post under the steam room. I have a slightly different outlook on the situation, equally as fair to the deputies, and including NEGOTIATING THE LONG OVERDUE CONTRACT to the satisfaction of both parties and giving the deputies a long overdue raise. Doing away with the Sheriff's road patrol will leave thousands of rural citizens with minimal coverage and dangerously long response times from the State Police.

[tanouryjr]

Strikeslip has an outstanding post about this... strikeslip.blogspot.com/2008/10/sheriff-and-policing.html

It is great to hear someone finally talk about consolidation, but I agree with Strike in the fact that this isn't the right way to do it. Hopefully the CE is sincere about exploring other options and compromising on a real plan. If so, this could turn into a great thing. Clipper makes some great points also, which I've heard echoed throughout all the people I've talked to about this.

[dgriffin]

I've always wondered that, across New York State, each of the counties has had the same argument over the same issues. Not long ago, for example, you could get off the Thruway at a number of different exits to find the same sign within 1/2 mile saying, "No County Dump Here!" That's because NY State, evidently trying to balance the distribution of garbage, urged many counties to build local megadumps, usually close to a Thruway or Interstate exit.
Now, across the land, we're all arguing about eliminating policemen. Your issue in Oneida County duplicates the same here in Ulster county, and for all I know, many other locales around the state. My son-in-law, a state bureaucrat in Albany, tells me that New York State has the highest duplication of state and local services in the nation. Now, added to that is a duplication of duplication on the local level? Oh, my!
1. How the hell did we wind up with so many cops?
2. Do we need all of them, as opposed to can we use them?
3. Would consolidation of departments practically result in real dollar savings? Or would we wind up with less police coverage with the same high tax bills.

[Swimmy]

Dave,

I don't think you will see a reduction in police officers on the force. It would be political suicide. There is great concern that a reduction in the number of police officers will result in a reduction in public safety. I don't think there is a need for reducing the police force, unless you can prove that the quality of service will not be diminished. But I think that by eliminating the redundancy, you remove a lot of the bureaucratic overhead, which would certainly reduce the costs for having the same number of police. I think it would also improve efficiency. On the old OD forums, there was a thread about the overhead involved with having several 911 centers. It was eye opening to learn that everything is funneled through the County 911 center and depending on the location of the call, it is deferred to the local jurisdiction's call center. Sometimes, the local call center is not readily available, increasing response time. Consolidating these local centers into the County would (albeit in theory) streamline operations and reduce response time.

The problem is that all the local police chiefs will fight tooth and nail to prevent consolidation. Not because it will be bad for the public, but because they will lose their cushy salaries. They will use all types of scare tactics, including that consolidation will reduce police patrols and threaten public safety.

I see nothing wrong with requiring all the local officers to attend the same training that the county sheriffs receive and deputizing them as county sheriffs. You'll keep the same number of officers (maintaining public safety), increase officer competence, and reduce all the administrative and bureaucratic overhead. Turn all local police stations into county sheriff substations.

There is a town in Onondaga county that has consolidated its police force with the county sheriff. They've apparently seen a reduction in costs and no adverse effects on public safety or police patrols.

I also advocate for creating more district courts. With district courts, you have actual judges (lawyers admitted to the bar), and can abolish village and town courts. This will streamline the legal process at the early stages and prevent anomalies such as persons arrested in Utica being tried in New Hartford (the Clinton kid who allegedly murdered his grandfather in Clinton, the New Hartford Officer who had an alleged drinking-related accident the night of Touisant Davis's conviction, and I believe Andrew Donovan's dwi). It will also make it harder for "favors" to be granted based on how you know the town or village justice of the peace. Also, the town or village justice of the peace don't always know or understand the law competently enough to follow it. I'm not implying that they intentionally don't follow the law or don't make a concerted effort to understand the law, just that sometimes they do not understand it and make interesting judgments that a Judge would not, with some exceptions.

[lucy]

I also advocate for creating more district courts. With district courts, you have actual judges (lawyers admitted to the bar), and can abolish village and town courts. This will streamline the legal process at the early stages and prevent anomalies such as persons arrested in Utica being tried in New Hartford (the Clinton kid who allegedly murdered his grandfather in Clinton, the New Hartford Officer who had an alleged drinking-related accident the night of Touisant Davis's conviction, and I believe Andrew Donovan's dwi). It will also make it harder for "favors" to be granted based on how you know the town or village justice of the peace. Also, the town or village justice of the peace don't always know or understand the law competently enough to follow it. I'm not implying that they intentionally don't follow the law or don't make a concerted effort to understand the law, just that sometimes they do not understand it and make interesting judgments that a Judge would not, with some exceptions.

Well Swimmy I agree with you about getting rid of the town courts and what not because it is true people get off on "favors", but there will always be "favors" Everyone appears to me to get off some how. I honestly have not faith in the legal system, I use to but that was when I naive. I always thought well the bad guys are going to jail, but that's not the case not all bad guys go to jail, depending on who you know it all depends. Like I said in my other post I'm real bitter right now so sorry if I come off so negative.

[Clipper]

I agree swimmy that the smaller local police forces should be folded into the Oneida County Sheriff's Dept. and most of the fulltime officers should be brought up to sheriff department training standards, and deuputized.

If we had a fully trained, WELL PAID, Sheriff's Dept. Road Patrol, the State Police would not have to be depended upon as much and THEIR budget cuts would not effect the safety of the rural citizens as deeply.

Swimmy's observations of the district court vs township court, and judge vs justice are also very astute and well stated. A justice of the peace is elected, but minimally trained in the law. They do an admirable job in most cases, but their expertise is limited mainly to traffic and domestic laws, and criminal law is much deeper and more involved than they are capable of handling and adjudicating.

Arraignments should be in front of a judge, not a local justice. An arraignment should be in the jurisdiction in which the offense was committed, not in front of another jurisdiction's justice of the peace, because he happens to be home and available at the time of the arrest.

Donovan's kid was a perfect example of that political crap. He, by all means, should have been jailed and arraigned the next day in front of a City of Utica Judge. He committed a crime by leaving the scene of an accident that could have resulted in serious injury or death to an innocent person.

I might even allege that most likely, the old man involved may have had it made worth his while to stand down and not raise too much hell about his car door and close call.

We KNOW what politics at the town level is like in some of the surrounding towns. Town politics and law enforcement should be as far isolated from one another as possible.

I know Dan Middaugh the man. Dan Middaugh is a good man and a good sheriff. Any financial disasters in his department are not his fault alone. The present mess with his secretary should be thoroughly investigated, because I would almost stake my life on the fact that someone besides Middaugh is responsible for the approval of the spending of the overtime money. Dan is a scapegoat in this mess, and it really stinks. It is the epitome of dirty political bullshit, and it needs to be exposed for what it is and who the perpetrators are.

We need to finance a fully funded, well paid, well equipped sheriff's patrol, and do away with the local yokels and roll their equipment, cars and officers under the umbrella of a single department ran by the county sheriff.

[Swimmy]

I agree, Lucy, there will always be exceptions, but with district courts, they will become more of the exception to the rule rather than the rule.

[dgriffin]

The 911 operation works well down here, or so it seems when I listen to the scanner from time to time. Sherrif's deputies, S.P. and local town and even village police personnel are dispatched directly by 911 when the call comes in there. Calls coming into individual agencies are dispatched locally. When 911 gets a call, they ask for the nearest sherrif, S.P. or local to take it. The call is immediately picked up and 911 coordinates, having the authority to cancel the first taker and hand the call off to someone closer. Often, you'll hear an additional car from any agency call to accompany the lead agency's unit.
In my local town, we have separate police for the town and the village. Up until a few years ago, they even had separate dispatch operations ... down the street from one another! They have since combined Dispatch, but only after a threatened World War 3 from the voters. Licking their wounds, politicians take a year or two off from the fight to completely combine the agencies, but they will be back at it soon. The meeting held for discussion will have a clear line of division down the room, with the tax reduction advocates on one side and all the police families and friends on the other. In the case of our town, it's about jobs and political favor, rather than protection. Coverage doesn't seem to be the issue.

[Swimmy]

oh jobs and political favor are the primary motivators, but the chiefs are smart enough -- unfortunately -- to realize that by arguing those points they make a stronger case for consolidation.