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Post by Clipper on Oct 4, 2022 17:05:08 GMT -5
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Post by Ralph on Oct 5, 2022 13:08:44 GMT -5
Nothing surprises me anymore.
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Post by BHU on Oct 5, 2022 13:41:27 GMT -5
LBJ quote- "If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better then the best colored man he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on & he'll empty his pockets for you".
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Post by clarencebunsen on Oct 5, 2022 14:15:53 GMT -5
I was surprised but that is a real quote from LBJ. www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/He was explaining the politics of the South post reconstruction. I was paying attention to politics at that time even though I wasn't old enough to vote. LBJ was able to push a Voting Rights bill through Congress which JFK was not able to do. Another surprising memory. Ike sent federal troops into Little Rock to protect black students attending a formerly all-white school. Sometimes old white guys do unexpected things. |
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Post by BHU on Oct 5, 2022 16:20:43 GMT -5
I was surprised but that is a real quote from LBJ. www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/He was explaining the politics of the South post reconstruction. I was paying attention to politics at that time even though I wasn't old enough to vote. LBJ was able to push a Voting Rights bill through Congress which JFK was not able to do. Another surprising memory. Ike sent federal troops into Little Rock to protect black students attending a formerly all-white school. Sometimes old white guys do unexpected things. I've always been intrigued by LBJ. I think if he ran for a second term & won he would have been a great President. But, we'll never know. |
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Post by Clipper on Oct 5, 2022 18:01:42 GMT -5
LBJ is to be applauded for his signing of the civil rights bill of 1964, and his accomplishments in desegregation and voting rights are to be lauded, but I find it difficult to be intrigued by the man that escalated the US involvement in Vietnam against the advice of many of his military advisors. We ended up with over 500,000 American troops in Vietnam. Of the 500,000 there are 58, 250+ names on the Vietnam Memorial Wall. Men my age had few choices. Either manage to get a college deferment, have a medical condition that classified you as 4F for the draft, or hide out in Canada. Between 1964 and 1973 over 2 million young men were drafted. LBJ threw a lot of young men into the meat grinder. Many of whom had just graduated from high school and were just starting to plan a future.
If you didn't go to college, or dropped out of college as I did, you could plan on seeing your draft notice fairly quickly. I chose to enlist in the navy, but I still got my draft notice while I was in basic training. I asked my company commander what I should do. He said he would take care of it, and while I stood there he tore it into confetti sized pieces and tossed it in the waste basket and told me that they can't draft active-duty military. I was relieved to hear that they wouldn't be buying me a train ticket to Fort Dix NJ. LOL
His positive accomplishments leaned more toward desegregation and civil rights should be rightfully applauded, but a lot of young men breathed a sigh of relief when Tricky Dick Nixon was elected and when he withdrew the US from Vietnam. His one great accomplishment before he was forced out of office for being involved in the Watergate scandal.
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Post by Clipper on Oct 5, 2022 18:23:02 GMT -5
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Post by clarencebunsen on Oct 5, 2022 19:02:24 GMT -5
I think everyone my age has very mixed feelings about LBJ. I volunteered at the same time my draft notice was being typed up. LBJ had inherited a war along with the Oval Office. We fought to not lose which meant not winning and hoping the other side would get tired first. Everyone just kept the meat grinder running. Some of the names on the wall are much more than names to me.
I think LBJ was also worn down by the grinder. When he was challenged in the early primaries, I don't think he wanted the job anymore.
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Post by Clipper on Oct 5, 2022 23:18:12 GMT -5
I think everyone my age has very mixed feelings about LBJ. I volunteered at the same time my draft notice was being typed up. LBJ had inherited a war along with the Oval Office. We fought to not lose which meant not winning and hoping the other side would get tired first. Everyone just kept the meat grinder running. Some of the names on the wall are much more than names to me. I think LBJ was also worn down by the grinder. When he was challenged in the early primaries, I don't think he wanted the job anymore. Some of the names on that wall are much more to me than just names also CB. I think anyone who lived through that era knows someone who's name is on the wall and mourns their loss. My best friend from high school and another kid that I hung with in N. Utica before we moved to Newport, as well as a guy that I served with who was killed after I had come home. Most of us are able to put that period in time in the past for the most part, but I for one think of those lost that I knew often. I am not alone in being proud to have served but angry with the way it ended. You are right about Johnson inheriting the war, but his ignoring his military advisors and escalating the numbers of troops deployed there is what I blame him for. He is not the only president to inherit a military conflict. Goerge W. inherited the Iraq war from George HW Bush. He then sent our troops into Afghanistan and left that mess for Obama to deal with, and for Biden to withdraw our troops from, although I think the half assed way Biden accomplished it was a goat rope and a disgrace, between leaving all the hardware and resources behind for the Taliban, along with many of the people he promised not to leave behind. As much as I dislike President Biden, I respect the fact that he promised from the beginning of the conflict in Ukraine that we would materially and financially support the efforts to defeat Putin's efforts to invade and annex Ukraine as part of Russia, but would NOT put American boots on the ground. I sincerely hope that he lives up to that. If Biden doesn't run, or is defeated in 2024 and the conflict in Ukraine has not been resolved the person who succeeds him will join the long line of presidents to inherit a conflict that they were not responsible for the US entering into. |
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Post by clarencebunsen on Oct 6, 2022 0:44:24 GMT -5
My best friend growing up is also a name on the wall. His parents received his posthumous Silver Star. My memories of him including shooting hoops in my backyard, reading comic books in his room and playing endless games of Risk. There are only a few of us still around who remember him like that. I could never reconcile those memories with the picture of him as a battlefield hero. I guess I would rather remember the guy who liked to share his comic books with me.
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Post by Clipper on Oct 6, 2022 8:31:04 GMT -5
I try to focus on the good times, shooting pool in the little pool hall in Newport, hanging out in summer, cruising around in a friend's car, or loading hay for a local farmer, but every once in awhile the realization that my fun-loving, small-town buddy, a 19yr old kid died in a jungle 8000 miles from home creeps into my thoughts. He aspired to be a US Marine and joined the Marines soon after graduation.
We are among the fortunate though CB. We still have those pleasant memories from our childhood and have survived through good times and bad. Fortunately the good memories outnumber the bad and we have been blessed with families and are still here enjoying life. THAT I never forget and start each day thanking God for blessing me with yet another day.
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Post by Atticus Pizzaballa on Oct 6, 2022 9:10:23 GMT -5
I always loved Nixon. We have one thing in common. We both like a bowl of cottage cheese with black pepper sprinkled on top.
When I entered the Monastery in 1966 I received my draft notice as a divinity exemption. My two classmates Tom and Bob ended their service to the Navy and Army at the same time and entered the Monastery also.
I do not recall much of anything about the Vietnam War other than we lost cause most of the service men were stoned on weed, lol
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Post by Clipper on Oct 6, 2022 10:02:21 GMT -5
I always loved Nixon. We have one thing in common. We both like a bowl of cottage cheese with black pepper sprinkled on top. When I entered the Monastery in 1966 I received my draft notice as a divinity exemption. My two classmates Tom and Bob ended their service to the Navy and Army at the same time and entered the Monastery also. I do not recall much of anything about the Vietnam War other than we lost cause most of the service men were stoned on weed, lol[/font] I am sorry that you have so little respect for, and such a misguided opinion of Vietnam veterans PB. Yes, marijuana was readily available in some parts of Vietnam, but not all. Yes, some of our soldiers smoked pot but MOST did not, and of those who did, for many of them it was simply an escape from the horrors that they experienced or witnessed almost daily. It is a sad fact that many veterans of that war found refuge in drugs and alcohol even after returning home, many STILL suffer from those addictions, and many have taken and continue to take their own lives as a result. I have to wonder if you were in their shoes would you have welcomed a chance to escape the unescapable by rolling a joint? Give that a thought before you so cavalierly make that insinuation or make light of it. I find it a bit hard to "LOL" at the last statement in your post. Just saying. YOU answered a calling from an authority much higher than the local draft board, and served in a different but no less important role in hospitals and schools throughout your working life. When a person is called to served God and Country, some are blessed with the honor of serving GOD. After all there is a reason why God is listed first and foremost in "God and country." |
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Post by BHU on Oct 6, 2022 13:37:12 GMT -5
I said I was intigued by LBJ, I didn't say I admired him. And I'm well aware of the Viet Nam war, which is why he chose not to run again. He was a hell of a better POTUS then Nixon ever thought of who dragged the war out himself before his second election to appeal to right wing conservaties who wanted us to stay there & fight. I wonder who many lives that cost. And Tricky Dick was a closet racist true & true. Worse then Trump. Watergate was the best thing to happen to this Country in that era for the sole reason that this Country got rid of Nixon.
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Post by BHU on Oct 6, 2022 13:47:16 GMT -5
I always loved Nixon. We have one thing in common. We both like a bowl of cottage cheese with black pepper sprinkled on top. When I entered the Monastery in 1966 I received my draft notice as a divinity exemption. My two classmates Tom and Bob ended their service to the Navy and Army at the same time and entered the Monastery also. I do not recall much of anything about the Vietnam War other than we lost cause most of the service men were stoned on weed, lol That's total bulls*it PB. You should know better. I never served. The war was winding down when I graduated h.s. But I did know a few guys only a couple years older then me who DID serve over there & they weren't "stoned on weed". They were lucky to make it back in one piece from the stories they related to me. |
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