College Presidents Want Lower Drinking Age

[dgriffin]

Lower drinking age is backed
21 'is not working,' college officials say
College presidents from more than 100 schools across the country are calling on lawmakers to do something about binge drinking: Consider lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18.

"Twenty-one is not working," says the group's statement, signed by presidents from prominent colleges such as Dartmouth, Duke and Syracuse. "A culture of dangerous, clandestine 'binge drinking' - often conducted off-campus - has developed."

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Permit me to be dubious. I wonder what else is up their sleeves.

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From Long Island's Newsday:
PROS

The United States has the oldest drinking age in the world. Most nations allow alcohol consumption at 16 or 18, and some have no minimum drinking age at all.

A lower drinking age could lead to less binge drinking, experts say, since 18- to 20-year-olds won't have to imbibe surreptitiously.

At 18, Americans can marry, serve in the military, vote and enter into legally binding contracts.

CONS

Safer roads. Laws setting the drinking age at 21 cut traffic fatalities involving drivers age 18-20 by 13 percent, according to a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration study.

Since states' laws differ on the drinking age, the result could be 18- to 20-year-olds traveling across state lines to buy or consume alcohol with sometimes disastrous results.

Adolescents' brains, some studies say, are still developing past the age of 18 and significant alcohol use can interfere in that process.

[wilum47]

Hey Dave,

Think those Prof's were "blogin' in" during our discussions a month ago? ;D ;D

[Clipper]

My first wife was from Washington County NY, near the Vermont border. There used to be horrific wrecks almost weekly, because the 18 year old drinking age in NY drew a crowd from Bennington Vt, and they had to travel a curvy and dangerous section of route 7 back to Vermont after drinking themselves into oblivion in NY state.

As a recovering alcoholic that rehabbed in 1976, I cannot honestly think of anything positive that alcohol ever did for me. It is simply another drug that Americans use to escape reality, and to "chill out."

I gotta say it again, and piss drinkers off worldwide. Alcohol related deaths will only be eliminated by eliminating alcohol consumption from legal activity and making it an illegal substance just like weed, and cocaine.

I also have to repeat my opinion that it will never change because we have too many martini sucking drunks in congress and the senate, such as Ted Kennedy. Maybe now that he has cancer, he can switch to legalized weed, and save what is left of his liver. Liquor lobby folks feed the campaign funds instead of the alcohol addiction relief programs, and the drunks in DC will always place their own financial gain ahead of what is right and healthy for America.

I think it would be a step forward if the Liquor industry was forced to pay for the lives ruined by alcoholism, as the tobacco industry has been forced to pay for the damages that tobacco has caused in the lives of Americans.

Wouldn't it be ironic, if alcoholics worldwide could go into rehab and send the bill to Jack Daniels, or Anhauser Busch? Maybe if your hubby blew his paycheck in the beer joint, National Grid would get a check from the booze industry to pay your electric, so that they would not have to turn your power off.

[rickolney]

So why isn't the blame for this shifted to the industry marketing around college campus areas?

I'm all for giving 18 year old young adults more responsibility. And that is what drinking is these days. It is responsibility. It isn't just a buzz and driving home (or elsewhere) to sleep it off. If they can place their life in Uncle Sam's hands then they should be allowed to drink legally. In fact, I was always for active military being able to walk into any tavern, bar, package store or Wal-Mart and be able to responsibly buy a 6 pack.

Maybe the college system should take the approach to having it made legal on their property and supplying an alternative to allowing it on their campus. Making it illegal OFF campus.

[Clipper]

I love to play devils advocate on the subject of alcohol consumption. It is true that drunks in the legislature will never allow alcohol to be messed with in congress.

My only question is that if booze is legal, why not other mind altering chemicals? Where is the level of intoxication drawn between being under the influence of pot, or beer. Booze is too big of a golden goose for congress to mess with.

I don't go as far as some though in thinking that all drugs should be legalized.

If one has ever been addicted to alcohol and seen the lousy life it brings, you would have a different outlook on whether it actually had any redeeming use in life. LOL.

People speak of Europeans allowing young people to drink. They can say what they want, but countries like Russia and France have the largest alcoholism problems in the world, and their productivity is effected by it.

In the mean time, it is legal, and I don't begrudge those of you who enjoy a cocktail or two, your right to drink. Enjoy it! Just don't drive home, and if you do, stay on your own side of the centerline. LOL. If you feel the need to be involved in a fatal wreck, unbuckle your seat belt, and go off of the RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE ROAD. Kill yourself, not me, haha!

[dgriffin]

It's hard for me to imagine why 100 college presidents would favor lowering the drinking age. Whether or not the age limit is effective in saving lives, etc., I thought it was the job of those who oversee our young adults to provide the example of doing the right thing, popular or not. Maybe college administrations think it's too much work to ban drinking among half of their students. Maybe they're more worried about their own culpability when they can't enforce the ban on campus. Maybe they're worried about Equal Protection suits, a notion that has been around for some time about the illegality of the 21 year age. Maybe they want to increase sales at college owned campus bars. But their stated argument that the 21 y.o. rule drives underage drinking behind a wall of awareness they can't penetrate with their good wishes ... that argument leaves me cold.

[dgriffin]

Here's one college president who disagrees with "The Amethyst Initiative."

www.mywesttexas.com/articles/2008/08/19/news/top_stories/doc48ab392478042324660702.txt

[dgriffin]

Here's an interesting pro/con site. Particularly note in the con arguments section the piece on the falsity of using European youth as a model. Another aspect of Europe is that public transportation and really tough drunk driving laws drive down the arrest stats without necessarily reducing the amount of drinking.
www.opposingviews.com/questions/should-the-drinking-age-be-lowered-from-21

[Swimmy]

I am in favor of reducing the drinking age. I understand the reasons against the idea. And I respect Clippers opinion of making alcohol illegal. However, we saw what happened during Prohibition.

I think this is a great idea. The current situation is not working. I have many friends who fell victim to alcohol abuse because of their binge drinking during college. I agree with the College Presidents who signed it in hopes that it leads to an honest and open discussion about rampant drinking among our youth.

I forget where I read it, but many teens are exposed to alcohol by the time they're 12 and some have drinking problems by the time they reach 15. There are many other incidental consequences associated with underage drinking that the 21 age limit has failed to stop. I see nothing wrong with creating a dialogue that is not closed-minded to other options that might reduce the age limit.

Simply shutting off communication and declaring teen drinking is bad has failed thus far. As with anything else, the key is education. Perhaps a combination of encouraging parents to discuss alcohol in an open dialogue with their children about alcohol and the risks involved along with some sort of exposure to alcohol will develop a better understanding.

As long as people are willing to approach this topic with an open mind, a better solution can be reached. I do not like MADD's commentary. Being dead set against talking about the feasibility of reducing the drinking age before a dialogue can begin is the wrong approach.

I don't have a solution, but I'm confident that one can be found if a dialogue is allowed to foster one.

[Clipper]

Swimmy, don't misconstrue my post to mean that I am advocating prohibition. I am just making the comparison of the attitudes of politicians toward pot and other mind altering substances, while sucking on a martini and defending their right to do so with the utmost of effort.

I simply find it ironic. In all reality though, I would challenge anyone to tell me of something great that happened in their lives as a result of drinking. ( I mean other than getting lucky on a Saturday night out)

All I can say about you all drinking is this. Stay on your side of the road, as I stated above, and if you kill me, I will haunt your ass until you die. When you arrive in heaven, I will be waiting there for you and kick your butt for killing me, LOL.

Don't mistake me for a tee totaler. I have 3 sons that drink socially. I take many opportunities to expose the dangers of drinking, but I would never deny your right to do so, as long as you drink responsibly.

All I can say about my quitting is this. Since 1976 I have never woke up wondering what I might have done the night before. I have never had to check the fenders on the car to make sure that they were all still there, and didn't have any flesh, blood, or strange paint adhered to them. I have yet to wake up with the dry heaves, or a major hangover headache. My costs for diet soda are much less than the cost of beer or liquor, and I still have just as much fun dancing and having a good time. I have never been afraid to turn over and see who is on the other side of the bed when I wake up. This old "5" has woke up next to the same "9 1/2" for the last 12 years. And most of all, the little head has never dragged the big head into any dangerous or disgusting situations that might result in antibiotic injections or a lifelong disease.

Have all my decisions been good ones? Hell no, but they were made with a clear mind, and I take responsibility for them, haha.

Like I said, I drank myself stupid daily for many many years, and even enjoyed it at times. I don't begrudge your right to do the same. Just don't be mad if I laugh at you when you are wrapped around the toilet barfing your brains out, or dumping down asprin like m and m's to kill the hangover headache. LOL

[Swimmy]

Fair enough! :-)

I'm a social drinker. The last time I drank myself into oblivion was on my 21st. I still hear stories about that night.

I am sorry to have misconstrued your post. I too see the irony you point out.

The only time I have had a hangover was the morning after my 21st. I don't get hangovers. For me, drinking in moderation is perfectly fine. It's when you abuse the substance that many problems occur. I have managed to strike a balance where I can have fun without drinking. Sometimes, though, going out for a beer with the boss and his associates can prove quite beneficial for professional networking and other business opportunities that I might not have had otherwise. In that respect, I view my drinking as a tool. But there is always that danger of abusing that tool and turning it into a detriment.

When I was a sophomore, I was under the mistaken belief that buzzed driving was not drunk driving and got behind the wheel. God was watching out for me. I had a near fight with a guard rail because I was starting to fall asleep at the wheel. Upon avoiding the guard rail, I pulled over to the side of the road and called for a taxi. Thankfully, I was the only one on the road. The next morning the police called me asking why my car was parked on the side of the road. Rather than lie and say that my car broke down, I explained what happened (honesty has always been my best policy). They offered me a ride to my car and gave me a stern warning not to try it again. I thought it was ironic because that one close encounter was all it took for me to realize how dangerous even buzzed driving can be. From that point forward, if I'm even buzzed, I don't get behind the wheel. It was stupid decision I made and I thank God that no one was injured. I thank the Irish in me for only receiving a ride in the back of a police car to retrieve my car and a stern warning that the next time would have severe consequences.

I have used that experience to share with kids I hear them bragging about how they are able to drive after 9 beers. Some of the kids look at me like I'm an old wrinkled man out of my mind. But I know a few who I reached and they have later told me they do the same thing I do. I do not think I could live with myself if I had injured anyone that night. Whenever my brother and his friends contemplate driving buzzed, I yell at them and tell them to call me if they ever need a ride. They have taken heed to my advice and every now and then, if i'm able to, i will give them a ride. I was very pleased to see these new commercials from the Ad Counsel telling kids that buzzed driving is drunk driving. That night is always on the front of my mind whenever I go out for a drink. I have a cab number programmed into my phone for this reason alone. My friends give me a lot of slack for that, but they are always grateful when we need to call a cab.

I commend you for the strength it took for you to break your addiction.

It is not easy to do, and I don't know as though I would have the strength to the same if I ever developed an addiction to alcohol or anything else. In fact, I know I don't. When I blew my shoulders out swimming competitively, I kept going when I should have stopped. I was addicted to competing and, I still am in many respects. There is no greater high than winning after putting in so much hard work and effort to achieve a goal.

I have a friend who I lost touch with because of his addiction. He broke off our friendship because he did not want to seek the appropriate help. I have another friend who did time for almost killing a man because he was so drunk and got behind the wheel. There is no excuse for drinking and driving.

I feel sorry for my friends who cannot have a good time unless alcohol is consumed. Sometimes it's more fun to be the sober one watching the rest of them be silly.

For the record, you wouldn't be able to meet me at the pearly gates in heaven, I'm going to hell. I'm a lawyer, remember? lol It's my destiny.

[dgriffin]

Swimmy wrote:

“…in hopes that (The Amethyst Initiative) leads to an honest and open discussion about rampant drinking among our youth.”
I would be for that, It is definitely a problem that is no where close to being solved.

“There are many other incidental consequences associated with underage drinking that the 21 age limit has failed to stop.” Of course, that’s true. But statistically, it has saved lives, or so I’ve read.

As long as people are willing to approach this topic with an open mind, a better solution can be reached.” Agreed.

“I do not like MADD's commentary. Being dead set against talking about the feasibility of reducing the drinking age before a dialogue can begin is the wrong approach.” I haven’t found it yet. Can you point me to it?

We’re not that far apart. So, why do I still feel suspicious of 100 college presidents?

[gearofzanzibar]

Alcohol abuse is a problem.

Alcohol isn't.

For thousands of years humanity has been able to muddle by without a drinking age, but in the last few generations we've become convinced that people that were once treated like adults have to be infantilized and protected beyond any reasonable bounds of logic. The result has been a steady re-defining of adulthood ever upward, from 14, to 16, to 18, and now up the 21, with each adjustment accompanied by a natural lowering of expectatations in regards to the level of responsibility those people are capable of.

We tell our children that if they want healthy bodies they have to regularly exercise and build their strength.

We tell our children that if they want healthy minds they have to regularly read and study to build their intellect.

But when it comes to alcohol, well, they simply can't be trusted to develop any sense of responsibility.

[Clipper]

Well said Gear. I still would have to challenge anyone to tell me of a good thing that happened to them because they were drinking. Anything that has given us pleasure, could have done so without alcohol. Simple fact.

Drinking laws are government interference, but then again, sometimes government has to intervene to prevent the stupid from victimizing the innocent. Seat belt laws are another widely argued bone of contention, but insurance costs are lower because of fewer traffic deaths due to no seatbelt. I would justify the seatbelt law because it could save the life of a person riding with the person that would not wear one without the law. You stand a better chance if the driver is still in the car and alive when it finally stops.

I have to agree with some of the views I read on here, but I don't totally agree with some laws that govern the stupid to protect the innocent. DWI laws and drinking age laws fall into that category as far as I am concerned personally.

[Swimmy]

MADD press release regarding The Amethyst Initiative

[M]ore than 100 college and university presidents have signed on to a misguided initiative that uses deliberately misleading information . . . .

College Leaders: Debate Lower Drinking Age

The advocacy group calls the initiative misguided and goes so far as to tell parents to reconsider sending their teens to colleges where the presidents have signed the initiative.

(emphasis added)

Binge drinking is an ever increasing problem facing college campuses. Dormitory residence directors host a volume of programs and assemblies trying to curtail alcohol consumption. There are increasing drunk driving accidents in college towns nationwide. All the awareness programs are having less effect over the students. It is a growing concern that the refusal to discuss the issue only compounds the problem.

I agree with Gear's post, especially about the part where society has consistently dumbed down our expectations of our youth. And we are seeing the consequences of this approach: kids are less respectful, more irresponsible, etc. Granted not all kids fit this category, but those kids are in the ever dwindling minority when it should be the opposite. I can't believe how many people are so thankful to me for using "please" and "thank you". Or that I will get off the phone when I am at the checkout line.