California Ruling on Same-Sex Marriage Fuels a Bat

[concerned]

If this was meant to be an issue that unites then why does it divide. I might add that this is also dividing and spliting various church denominations, an example is the Anglican Church who ordained a priest a Bishop who is gay and living with his partner.

www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/us/18gay.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1211130320-6wvwdazbAzMEovqroYvSwA

[frankcor]

concerned, let me ask, is there a place in religious life for clerics who are gay?

I note with interest the two Biblical passages contained in your signature. Are there not also passages that help to define a place for gays within in the church or in a life after death? Is there a place in the Catholic church for gays? Are we talking eternal damnation in the depths of Hell?

[concerned]

They are not biblical quotes.

In terms of religious life/consecrated life I know that there are and have been homosexuals and or those with homosexual tendencies within there respective religious communities, this has never been made public. As long as they are living there vows and I am sure that they are just as I am sure heterosexuals live out there vows. This would also apply to secular priests.

I never have been one who dares to judge where a person soul goes after death. The " last option " given to the person at the moment of death is between God and that individual. I would think that with the profound mercy of God even the most hardened person would opt for God in the life hereafter.

I guess that one could make an argument that would have a definate place for gays in any church and I am sure it could be justified by scripture. Paul seems not to allow this within his community.

[frankcor]

Thank you. I assumed they were biblical passages. Are you talking about the Apostle Paul? Are those quotes from his writtings?

[dgriffin]

I found on Google this quote, "the future of humanity passes by way of the family,” from John Paul II, as quoted in "Fully Alive," a Family Life Education program of The Ontario Conference of Catholic Bishops.
I remember that Augustine and Aquinas had much to say about Natural Law, which I recall as that which is built into the universe and is witnessed by creation. Au and Aq used Nat Law as a standard on which to base their reasoned theology. That's about all I remember from 12 years of Catholic education. And, no, I won't renew my subscriptions to Commonweal and America.

[frankcor]

That's all you remember? What about the beatings?

Thanks, Dave!

[Clipper]

That is something I would not soon forget! The "3 P's" Pontificating Penguins with Pointers. My knuckles and butt still remember my short experience with catholic education and nuns, at St Paul's in Whitesboro. I was very relieved to hear my parents discuss the idea that they could save money by sending me to public school, and that they didn't see any major educational benefit to sending me to St Paul's..
(not to mention the fact that I loved public school, and rebelled against being in a catholic school)

[wilum47]

Bruised knuckle vet from St Mary's on South St. Made it to 4th grade when a new lease on life lead me to Conkling school.

[dgriffin]

Clipper, did you go to the public school on Main St. in Whitesboro? The old brick building? I went to school there (Miss Ballardini, fourth grade) for a few months in 1952 while my parents were trying out Sunset Manor up on Woods Rd. The offer from National Homes to new home buyers was if you didn't like the house you could give it back to them in two months. So my father gave it back to them.
Eleven years of my Catholic education were with the nuns, who let us boys get away with murder. but the poor girls! ( www.windsweptpress.com/cathsex.htm ) But then in my senior year, we were all forced into Notre Dame HS as the first graduating class. There we met the Xaverian Brothers, a group of real ball busters. They were pretty good guys, actually, but you could say heavy handed.
And there's a reason why some kids might like Catholic schools over public schools ... www.windsweptpress.com/mina.pdf
I was a bit of a nerd.

[Clipper]

Yes, I did go to the old Main St. school. I was in the 6th grade, and I had a teacher named Gherig. He was a new teacher, just out of college, and was very nice guy.

We also lived in a national home at one time. It was in N Utica and cost my mom and dad, $9,999 with no money down for veterans. Those little cheese boxes now sell for about $60,000 and more.

I remember if we closed our bedroom doors, we froze our butts off, because the furnace was in a closet in the hallway, and there was no ductwork. It simply blew the hot air three directions, up the hall, out into the living room, or out the back of the furnace and through a register located below the kitchen sink, to heat the kitchen.

When they were new, they had no storm windows provided, only the front lawn and the fist 10 feet of the back lawn were seeded, and the driveways were dirt. You got what you paid for, haha!

I guess they were the "double wides" of the 50's and 60's, for those that could not afford stick built houses of higher quality and price. They served a purpose and allowed home ownership to a lot of Korean Conflict and WWII vets.

[dgriffin]

I can remember my bare feet hitting the tile-on-concrete floor on Pinecrest Road in the dead of December. Yikes! You're right about the furnace. Later National Home improvements would vent the heat through the ceilings, but the little furnace we had (a pot burner, not even gun burner) went on in late October and struggled its little life away without much success until April. After washing and dressing in this igloo, I remember trying to find the warmest spot on the school bus and finally getting to school and feeling warm for the first time since I left the classroom the afternoon before. Still and all, my Dad wasn't disappointed with the house per se. A "city boy" (east Utica) he couldn't take the country and was in addition very worried about sending his boys to a public school for fear for their souls. In later years we would call him Father John.

[Clipper]

I can't believe that they get 60 and 70 grand for one of those little cheese boxes now. The walls were only 2x3 studded, and with minimum thickness sheetrock on the walls.

My little sister was only about 5 when we lived on Keyes Rd. She slipped on the tile floor with just her socks on her feet and her foot went through both layers of sheetrock, between the studs and she sat on her butt in the hallway with her foot and lower leg in her bedroom, haha!