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Post by Clipper on Oct 3, 2011 11:27:53 GMT -5
Monday, October 03, 2011
NYRI Redux?
From FoxNews: Fed Plan to Consolidate Power Over Nation's Power Highway Has States Nervous .
The Obama administration is looking to consolidate control over the nation's power highway, pushing a proposal that would put one federal agency in the driver's seat when it comes to reviewing and approving power-line projects across the country. . . .
[The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission] said the plan would allow for an "expedited" process and, in the long run, "help satisfy the need for a modern and efficient transmission grid in the United States, with increased access to the most cost-effective renewable resources."
It's easy to see where this will go for us in the Greater Utica area.
Posted by Strikeslip at 12:01 AM 0 comments
As we have come to expect from Strikeslip and his Faultlines blog, he brings the important issues to our attention.
It IS too easy to see where this will go for the Utica area.
It is amazing that the liberal side of America masquerades as being environmentally concerned while we can rest assured that in the interest of pandering to the large energy producing corporate entities they would throw the CNY area and the Adirondacks under the bus in a heartbeat.
One could only hope that renewable energy sources would be referring to downstate and offshore wind farms or nuclear power plants, and not the raping of the upstate landscape with transmission lines and transformer stations.
While NYC and Long Island are considered to be the "economic engine" that drives the state, upstate gets damned sick of providing all the "fuel" necessary to keep it chugging along.
Most of the lakes in the Catskills are dedicated to providing water to the city, where fire hydrants are left open, running water down the storm sewers. It has been said in the past that the leaks and open hydrants alone would provide enough water to sustain a city the size of Utica. Upstate hydro projects are necessary to provide electricity for a city that lights up Times Square with lights rivaled only by the Las Vegas strip, and with office buildings that are left lighted or partially lighted when unoccupied at night, or that have decorative lighting that simply add to the nocturnal views of the skyline. Shut off the damn lights and there probably will be a decrease in the need for more raping of upstate for more power.
Too many New York city residents have absolutely no concern for energy or natural resource conservation, and the citizens of upstate NY that DO appreciate their beautiful natural surroundings are imposed upon to support the irresponsible ignorance taking place 200 or so miles South.
Whether it be the present administration's liberal policies, or those any other administration, either present or future, downstate's needs shouldn't come out of the hides of upstate residents. It is legislation that should be strongly opposed by ALL at ALL levels.
Any transmission of electricity from upstate to downstate should be mandated to be in the form of underground transmission lines, buried along the right of way of the NYS Thruway or other major arteries. NOT across pastures and through back yards. NOT over majestic mountains or along the shores of beautiful pristine lakes, creeks and rivers.
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Post by bobbbiez on Oct 3, 2011 16:55:43 GMT -5
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Post by Clipper on Oct 5, 2011 14:45:32 GMT -5
hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POWER_GRID?SITE=VABRM&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULTAPNewsBreak: Obama to step up power line projects By MATTHEW DALY Associated Press Politics Video Advertisement Buy AP Photo Reprints WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration moved Wednesday to speed up permitting and construction of seven proposed electric transmission lines in 12 states, saying the projects would create thousands of jobs and help modernize the nation's power grid. The projects are intended to serve as pilot demonstrations of streamlined federal permitting and improved cooperation among federal, state and tribal governments. The projects will provide more than 2,500 miles of new transmission lines in Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, New Mexico, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Wyoming, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Wisconsin. In all, the projects are expected to create more than 10,000 direct and indirect jobs, help avoid blackouts, restore power more quickly when outages occur and reduce the need for new power plants, officials said. "To compete in the global economy, we need a modern electricity grid," Energy Secretary Steven Chu said Wednesday in a statement. "An upgraded electricity grid will give consumers choices while promoting energy savings, increasing energy efficiency and fostering the growth of renewable energy resources." Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said the seven power lines being expedited under the pilot program will serve as important links across the country to increase the capacity and reliability of the nation's power grid. "This is the kind of critical infrastructure we should be working together to advance in order to create jobs and move our nation toward energy independence," he said. David DeCampli, president of PPL Electric Utilities, and Ralph LaRossa, president of Public Service Electric and Gas. Co., who are teaming up to build a 145-mile transmission line in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, applauded the administration's efforts. Their project and others should ensure that high-priority electric infrastructure projects are built and placed in service in a timely manner, the power executives said. Pam Eaton, deputy vice president for public lands at The Wilderness Society, also hailed the project. "Building responsibly sited power lines to access world-class renewable resources can put thousands of Americans to work, bring cost-effective clean power to people who need it, and help some of the rural counties in the West hardest hit by the economic downturn," she said. The projects are: - A 500 kilovolt (kV), 300-mile transmission line proposed by Idaho Power in Oregon and Idaho. - 1,150 miles of high-voltage lines across Wyoming and Idaho. - A 210-mile, 500 kV line near Salem, Ore. - Two 500 kV transmission lines in Arizona and New Mexico. - A 700-mile, 600 kV transmission line in Wyoming, Utah and Nevada. The project is intended to help develop new wind projects in Wyoming. - A 345 kV transmission line in Minnesota and Wisconsin. - A 145-mile, 500 kV transmission line in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Although New York is not mentioned in this particular article, the article DOES go to show the direction federal government is heading in making the permit process and approval easier for power companies. It is not a good direction that this legislation is taking us as a nation. There will simply be more pandering to energy companies, more raping of the landscape and environment, and more unjustified taking of private lands by eminent domain for transmission line towers and right of ways. Another government program shoved down our throats. An assault on the many for the good of a few.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 5, 2011 15:04:58 GMT -5
Fraught with problems and danger to states' rights, this is no surprise. Anyone running a country is not going to let the individual states interfere with a nationwide plan to provide power across the country. For one thing, why let citizens in one state struggle with high prices and those in other states enjoy low prices when you can charge everyone high prices. Why endanger the overall power distribution scheme when you can edict what you think is the most efficient generation and distribution plan and put plants where they make sense. Why let state and local politicians such up all the graft from power companies when you can suck it all up to the federal level?  I think the feds will win. Yup, shoved down our throats. |
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Post by Clipper on Oct 5, 2011 15:27:18 GMT -5
I guess I am just selfish enough to believe that unless it is determined by amiable agreement, areas using power should provide their own sources, whether it be carbon burning plants, nuclear, hydro, or wind farms. If a power project is placed on an upstate ballot for a referendum to be voted on it is one thing, but to simply have Albany or Washington tell you that they are mandating that a 765K line will pass through your back yard or destroy a swath of pristine pine forest on your land is despicable.
One of the main deterrents to living in New York is that upstate somehow seems at times to exist strictly to provide resources and revenue to NY City and downstate interests.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Oct 5, 2011 15:39:26 GMT -5
Clipper,
Since moving here (can it be approaching 3 decades, where has the time flown?), I have often felt that the upstate region is in a colonial relationship to the metropolitan area. I've seen the analyses that show the financial benefit we derive from the "economic engine" downstate but it seems to me that much of that is because the prices of things we have in abundance: power, water, even agricultural and dairy products, are kept low by policy in order to satisfy the desires of down state consumers.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 5, 2011 16:53:57 GMT -5
CB wrote: "...the prices of things we have in abundance: power, water, even agricultural and dairy products, are kept low by policy in order to satisfy the desires of down state consumers."
Ya gotta help me on that one. Almost everything is more expensive in NY City. The two power companies down this way, Central Hudson that serves up my way and Con Edison that serves the City, have some of the highest power costs to consumers in the nation.
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Post by Ralph on Oct 5, 2011 18:58:58 GMT -5
I noticed lots of planned power lines, but no new power supplying facilities.
It's nice to plan on "distributing" power, but......uh......where you going to get it from? A lot of places seem to have enough of their own to just get by and others don't, but will just even that out by making sure NO ONE has enough?
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Post by clarencebunsen on Oct 5, 2011 21:32:32 GMT -5
There is no denying that prices are high in the metro area. My contention is that free market pricing would be even higher.
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Post by JGRobinson on Oct 8, 2011 4:49:11 GMT -5
CB wrote: "...the prices of things we have in abundance: power, water, even agricultural and dairy products, are kept low by policy in order to satisfy the desires of down state consumers." Ya gotta help me on that one. Almost everything is more expensive in NY City. The two power companies down this way, Central Hudson that serves up my way and Con Edison that serves the City, have some of the highest power costs to consumers in the nation. Actually they arent kept low but they are kept artificially lower than they actually should be. Think about it, NYC doesn't have any resources of its own except Humans! They produce almost no Power, have little potable water, no agriculture, no forests or mines to supply building products or fuel and virtually have 99% of everything they want and need shipped into them all day everyday! Its like living on a desert Island and wanting to create an oasis! Its all good unless you need everyone elses raw materials to create that oasis, then its going to be expensive! God helps those that helps themselves! What is NYC doing to help themselves other than helping themselves to our valuable assets? Nothing! No windmills on their skyscrapers or in the harbor, no trash conversion plants to make cheep steam from their own waste. No plans to do anything but etch a Frankenstein Power-line Scar across the state and tap us like a rubber tree! We do overproduce in upstate but not to the extent that selling any would produce anything but higher prices upstate. We should and can produce ten times the amount we do but that will take a long term commitment to building the generators everywhere and anywhere we have flowing water, blowing wind and Natural gas or Methane, so far that commitment doesn't exist, we do have the potential to be 100% NRG self Sufficient in Upstate NY, just no consensus. The so called Environmentalists are the biggest voices against the idea. They can spew anti developmental crap until the cows come home but they present no viable solutions to their own squawking points. If we do this, Downstate can buy all they want, as long as they bury the power and NG lines! Its going to be expensive but that shouldn't be a problem for people that can afford to pay 25K a month for a 2 bedroom apartment in a high-rise or 2.5 million for a little ranch house on the Island. No high tension towers, put it in the earth where its protected, shielded and safe for those that are impacted by it. |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2011 11:37:29 GMT -5
From the Wiki article on the New York City economic engine, which is at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_York_City#Manufacturing"Manufacturing accounts for a significant share of employment. Garments, chemicals, metal products, processed foods, and furniture are some of the principal products.[25] The food-processing industry is the most stable major manufacturing sector in the city.[26] Food making is a $5 billion industry that employs more than 19,000 residents, many of them immigrants who speak little English. Chocolate is New York City's leading specialty-food export, with $234 million worth of exports each year.[26]" There are over 233,000 manufacturing jobs in more than 10,000 New York City industrial businesses [4], with the highest concentration of industrial employment in Manhattan. This includes manufacturing, warehousing, utilities, and transportation. Manufacturing jobs average $41,000 annually (NYS DOL, 2nd Qtr 2005), about $10,000 more than comparable jobs in retail or restaurants. The manufacturing sector has the highest percentage of first-generation immigrants making up 64% of the workforce (NYC Dept. City Planning) and African Americans comprising 78% of the production workforce (2004 American Community Survey)." These are small businesses, with an average size of 21 employees (NYS DOL, 2nd Qtr 2005). Examples of goods manufactured in the city include broadway costumes, custom-made cabinets, croissant for hotels, and wooden crates for shipping fine art. These items are labor-intensive and require collaboration between the end-user and the manufacturer. In recent years, as real estate and globalization pressures have increased, the remaining manufacturers have become more design-oriented and single customer-focused. To boot, production methods have become cleaner and more technology-driven." Not that many years ago, New York City was the manufacturing capital of New York state, with more manufacturing jobs per population than any other city in the state. (Source is from the book, "The Epic of New York City.") |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2011 11:47:02 GMT -5
CB wrote: "...the prices of things we have in abundance: power, water, even agricultural and dairy products, are kept low by policy in order to satisfy the desires of down state consumers." Ya gotta help me on that one. Almost everything is more expensive in NY City. The two power companies down this way, Central Hudson that serves up my way and Con Edison that serves the City, have some of the highest power costs to consumers in the nation. Actually they arent kept low but they are kept artificially lower than they actually should be. Think about it, NYC doesn't have any resources of its own except Humans! They produce almost no Power, have little potable water, no agriculture, no forests or mines to supply building products or fuel and virtually have 99% of everything they want and need shipped into them all day every.... Huh? I count 6,400 megawatts or generated power in just Queens and Brooklyn (Kings) alone. I'll let you add Bronx, Manhattan and Staten Island. www.powerplantjobs.com/ppj.nsf/powerplants1?openform&cat=ny&Count=500Some of the largest power plants (output) in New York State are within the borders of New York City. |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2011 13:34:58 GMT -5
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Post by JGRobinson on Oct 8, 2011 20:27:04 GMT -5
I never said they didn't produce power, they consume much more than they produce. There are many jobs in NYC and Surrounding, there better be, they have a lot of people that live there. They really dont have anything thats native to the city, its all shipped in then processed by the Mom and Pops like you mentioned. Without the outside world, NYC does not exist.
I have to say, Its real hard to feel sorry for a city that wont shut its lights off and has 4000 big screens running in one block (Time Sq). I know its business and it makes allot of money but were being told to use pigtailed light-bulbs and turn down the water heater. It all seems a bit over the edge but thats the redneck country boy in me coming out.
I do think we should produce more power and send it downstate at a profit and garner some more jobs to boot. Its just not going to happen with a Frankenstein Scar Across the entire upstate region and we dont produce enough at the moment to fee NY more anyways
I do agree with you about Utica, not much but poverty and Cockroaches grow there. I will have to say that the town of Munnsville where I Live grows more food in a week than NYC in 3 seasons! Moshers Veggie stand probably does all by itself.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 8, 2011 22:21:25 GMT -5
And closer to the city, but possibly as far away as your area, farmers big and small bring produce daily down to New York City to sell in Farmers Markets. Like the guy from Maine who brought shell fish down to this area (5 hour drive) and did very well. He set up across the river and every time I went by his truck by the side of the road was doing a heck of a business.
Re Times Square, yes one would wonder what kind of program for energy conservation is in place in this state. On the other hand, the City is a world capital of commerce and no one wants to turn down the lights. Auto and truck manufacturers don't seem to be contributing their fair share across their product lines, so a Times Square advertiser probably figures he's no different than them.
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WTG Strikeslip! You always manage to amaze me. As usual you're making dad proud with the theory "the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree." Keep on them kiddo and keep up on the good work. ;D 
