More NYS Retirees With $100,000

[dgriffin]

More NYS Retirees With $100,000 Allowances


Complete report in PDF format
September 08, 2011

(Go to web page url listed at bottom of this copy for individual links mentioned in the text.)


Thirteen percent of newly retired members of the state Police and Fire Retirement System (PFRS) in 2010 qualified for a pension of more than $100,000, according to data posted at SeeThroughNY.net, the Empire Center’s government transparency website. Most of the 125 new PFRS retirees with six-figure pensions worked for agencies on Long Island and in the lower Hudson Valley, including the Port Authority of NY & NJ, continuing a trend that has developed in the past decade.


The average pension for all newly retired Police and Fire Retirement System members came to $63,791, while pensions averaged $29,988 *for members of the New York State Employee Retirement System (ERS), which covers all county and municipal workers outside New York City.


The searchable database of pension allowances for 352,771 retired New York state and local government employees includes the names, retirement dates and, in most cases, the most recent employer for all individuals collecting pension benefits from the PFRS and ERS.


The benefit levels shown in the database are maximum allowable benefits, which can exceed the amount actually collected by those retirees who, for example, opt to receive less in order to preserve a continuing benefit for their survivors. The maximum annual benefits for retired NYSLRS members totaled nearly $7.7 billion. NYSLRS covers most employees of the state government, public authorities, counties, cities, towns and villages outside New York City, whose employees belong to separate municipal pension plans. NYSLRS also covers those school district employees (excluded from this data set) not covered by the New York State Teachers Retirement System.


Philip W. Wood, former vice chancellor for capital facilities at the State University of New York, topped the pension list for ERS or PFRS members who retired in 2010. His maximum allowance comes to $186,295, the 10th highest pension for all retired members of the two systems.


Click here for tables listing the top 100 pensioners and average pensions by retirement year and a graph illustrating growth of PFRS pensions.


SeeThroughNY allows the public to examine government expenditures on the Internet. In addition to pension data for former state and local governments and school districts, it includes payrolls for New York State and New York City government, counties, municipalities, public authorities and school districts throughout the state. Also posted are state legislator office expenditures, pork barrel “member item” spending, and a benchmarking feature for comparing local government and school district spending. The site was launched July 31, 2008.


The Albany-based Empire Center is a project of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, one of the nation’s leading non-profit 501(c)3 think tanks.


www.empirecenter.org/AboutUS/news_releases/2011/09/nyslrs090811.cfm


* I guess there is indeed a knighted class among government employees.

[corner]

dave really got to stop posting this witch hunt stuff as a retired LEO with 2 bullet wounds and 7 knife scars to prove it i find this stuff totally offensive... when you add in years of over time double shifts and not knowing if you are going home in one piece after the end of your shift the police earned their retirements..tripple the divorce rate of any other profession and quadruple the heart disease rate ...hoidays without family canceled vacations and high stress...give us a break

[Clipper]

I don't know if it is "witch hunt stuff" corner. It seems to be documented truth. I can sympathize with both sides to a certain extent. We ALL want the protection that is provided by those professions, and we all realize the dangers and the stresses that those people face on a daily basis. We want that protection and few deny the points that you have made.

I think the problem comes when the retirement is more than most people make at the peak of their working life. Granted, a substantial retirement is warranted, but when pension funds become unsustainable and overly exorbitant in cost, something has to change.

However unsavory or dangerous the occupation may be, it is simply a fact of life that government can't continue to fund such expensive retirement benefits, and can't continue to allow unions to hold them hostage with demands for more and more.

It may be repulsive to you to see the subject discussed on public forums, but it is a subject of concern to many who are now saddled with paying for those high pension costs.

The present economic problems are making folks look into every government expenditure and at every line item to identify costs that look to be out of line.

I understand your viewpoint Corner, and I also understand the fact that your life is in danger even after retirement, but regardless, there has to be common sense factored into figuring and negotiating pension benefits, now AND in the future, for ALL government employees.

No doubt that it IS a stressful occupation. In reading the OD Homepage this morning, it looks to me like the death of the NYSP investigator in Ilion yesterday was quite possibly a suicide. Way too many LEO's die of self inflicted causes. Way too many LEO's are divorced. Way too many LEO's are prone to alcohol abuse, domestic abuse, and other problems that are most likely brought on by the rigors of the job.

I don't know the answers, but I know that we might as well get used to the subject of the pension costs being discussed, because they ARE at an unsustainable level. Pension costs are a favorite whenever the high costs of government are discussed.

I received a sticker in a mailing from a Federal Retiree organization a few months ago that said "I Am a Proud Retired Federal Employee" I told Kathy "Hell, I am not putting that thing in the window of MY vehicle. I would probably come home with bullet holes in the truck with the way people feel about government employees and civil servants these days!"

[dgriffin]

Corner, I love ya, but what I find offensive is Police and Fire retirees with on average DOUBLE the pension amounts of all public employees, and often at an age when they begin other careers. And what bothers me further is the lack of knowledge of that fact by the general public, or even their awareness that police and fire in many communities make much more than contract amounts carried in newspapers.

If you think because of the risks taken by firemen and and police they deserve such amounts, I won't argue. But it should be public information as should the pay of ANY public servant. Such information used to be very public, and rightly so since we taxpayers are footing the bill. It seems that is no longer the case and anything that is secret is always subject to abuse. And further, labeling the public disclosure of tax money spent on salaries a "witch hunt" is far from accurate. In fact, it's bull sh*t. My salary as a teacher was public information and was well known to anyone who asked (not that I don't have concerns with salaries in public education.)

[corner]

first of all the state of new york and its employess ahve a fully funded and second richest retirement fund in the world about 280 billion so the pension fund is not broke what is happening smaller municipalites like Utica during there flush years with held paying the full amount towards their share of the retiremnt fund so out of this equation you have to subtract the state worker our fund was fully funded and still is to the point that the inome exceeds the outgo by 3 to 1 without touching the 280 billion dollar principal add to the the fact that the fund has been wisley invested in safe funds still not a problem the problem lies in that the locals who never in the past paid their obligations now are being forced to because they cant touch our piece of the pie the 280 billion,,, laws were enactedduring the tenure of cuomo the daddy to keep the fund from being raided by the governor to balance the budget as daddy tried to do adn laws were enacted to prevent local employees from being paid out of the state piece of pie.. bottomline is my retirement is costing the taxpayer nothing as it was funded as part of my pay package andcondition of employment,,,the local police fire and civil service is entitled to the sametreatment by the localities but the locals never in the past chipped in the full amounts and kept owing the system and got further behind now they have to play catch up and there in lies the crux of the issue by the way my retirement after 34.5 years of service is nowhere near 100 k state emplyees are nolonger allowed to accumulate overtime to increase their benefit...that is still aproblem in localities ...all state employees since 1977 have also contibuted to their retirement systems..i worked for the state of new york as my employer not the taxpayers as i was one.. for every 100 dollars i earned 40 went back as taxes so therefore i could not be my own boss...and by the way if i had a dime for every asshole who said they were gonna have my badge id be a millonaire the badge isstill in my pocket and my number is retired.....thank you very much

[Deleted]

The average retiree recieves a pension of about $900/month. This is all about Union bashing, with conservative outfits like the Empire Center leading the charge funded by millionaire fat cats. And of course, the conservative leaning sheeple are led gladly along by the their noses, pissed off at their neighbors because they get a pension that they earned by working for a living. 'Why should they get a pension {sniff sniff}, I don't'? It's pathetic.

[corner]

kracker thanks sounds like we are on the same page this time ..................mind the earth quake

[Clipper]

Good heavens. Stranger things have happened I guess, but I'm putting THIS one on the calendar, lol. Talk about the "odd couple" hahaha. Corner, you must be Oscar and Kracker must be Felix. He is younger and probably better looking, lol. You can be Jack Klugman's character. Never thought I would see the day.

[Swimmy]

I know it's too much to ask, but sources would be nice! The one Dave cites to indicates that the majority of state workers earn a pension of $100,000. That's more than $900/month! I guess I'll just wait until Dave or ClarenceBunsen posts a source that embarrasses that opinion posed as fact. :-)

In the mean time, I saw nothing in the article that could be construed as a "witch hunt" or "union bashing" as corner or kracker imply. Regardless, the point is that in a time when government jobs out-pay their private counterparts, such lavish perks are no longer necessary. Today, it is more advantageous to work a government job because you are guaranteed a paycheck and a pay raise. The rest of us who pay your salaries or pensions had to forgo those luxuries to afford our tax bills! It has nothing to do with union bashing as some would have you believe.

[corner]

there are athandful of state retirees earning that much against a slary of 200 k commissioner there numbers are a few dozen at best my figures re the stae pension fund were released by a memeber of the comptrollers office who spoke at a retiree meeting in july
bottom line is there is nobody on this forum or existence who would turn down a civil service job they qualified for with security pay and benefits NOBODY!

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2011 19:26:02 GMT -5 Swimmy said:

I know it's too much to ask, but sources would be nice! The one Dave cites to indicates that the majority of state workers earn a pension of $100,000. That's more than $900/month! I guess I'll just wait until Dave or ClarenceBunsen posts a source that embarrasses that opinion posed as fact. :-)

In the mean time, I saw nothing in the article that could be construed as a "witch hunt" or "union bashing" as corner or kracker imply. Regardless, the point is that in a time when government jobs out-pay their private counterparts, such lavish perks are no longer necessary. Today, it is more advantageous to work a government job because you are guaranteed a paycheck and a pay raise. The rest of us who pay your salaries or pensions had to forgo those luxuries to afford our tax bills! It has nothing to do with union bashing as some would have you believe.

Uh, go back & read the story. It does not say that the majority of retirees earn 100,000/yr. pensions. You know why Police & Fire retirees are getting huge pensions? Because in the era of 9/11 it was/is politically expedient for politicians to give police & firemen anything they wanted, i.e. pay raises & overtime which raises their average salary which in turn hikes their pensions. Look what Roefaro did in Utica. He practically handed over the keys of the city treasury to the Police Dept. in their last contract because they endorsed him for mayor. There's abuses, no doubt about it. But the average retiree recieves nowhere near the pension cited in the article. Let's not lump all public employees together as greedy pensioners living high on the hog, because it's just not the case. If anyone is to blame it's the politicians who gave away the farm to public safety employees in exchange for endorsements come election time. That's the game being played. I'm not bashing police or firemen. But, the politically correct fawning over these groups in the post 9/11 era has got to end. Enough is enough.

[JGRobinson]

I hope lots of people private and public make 100K at retirement, how they make it is the Crux not if. I don't hate Cops for making a good retirement, what I hate is when soldiers make less than half of that and most have been deployed many times in the last 10 years in war zones! If a Soldier is disabled while serving, they cant draw compensation and get another job, one or the other, not both. I also hate that a Soldier has to pay for most of his benefits and protections yet they equal less than half of those Law Enforcement Personnel receive! How many soldiers were killed or injured last year, How many LEP? I think the Military is at much greater risk of these things even if your just a cook!

I remember well the add that showed 150 or more support people to get a C130 off the ground, it makes sense, thats a very complex bird with 1000 different systems. It seems a patrol Car needs the same amount. The leadership and other support people equals the numbers of worker bees! The Administrative ratios are way too high in most Government jobs. If you count all the people it takes to deploy a Public Worker including the Union Leadership, there is probably 3 people overseeing every one worker. Implementation of new technology was supposed to reduce this figure significantly, It hasn't!

The Union and Leadership still refuse to let these cost savers bear fruit. The all night watchman still survives, he's just assisted by 2 million in monitoring and sensing equipment!

[dgriffin]

If I sum up what I'm reading here (those posts I can understand), I have to agree that police and firemen take more chances and are in more danger each day than snowplow drivers, that conservative fatcats are using these issues to union bust (sure, but explore why). I don't agree that the data has been presented in a misleading way. And I certainly didn't cite any source that said the majority of state retirees earned over $100K! The very first sentence of the article mentions 13% of only one segment of pensioners. And Kracker's point about a post 9/11 upsurge in Fire and Police benefits is interesting, but off the top of my head, I believe our splurging on cops and fire pre-dates 9/11.

So look, all I'm interested in are two things:
1. how come police and fire benefits/wages are so out of line with the rest of public employees, and in my opinion way beyond what the average danger would justify. (I've never taken a bullet, so you can discount my opinion if you want, but there are probably qualified people who will do the job for less.)
2. why have their wages/benefits always been practically a secret from the public?

[corner]

after 9/11 federal grants allowed the base salaries of police and fire to increase for example starting pay for a nys trooper was 50 k but jumped to 75 k after 9/11 on long island suffolp pd started at 75 k for a new cop but doubled to 150 k after 9/11 they were the highest paid pollice in the country and plrobablys still are largely based on the accumulation of wealthy citizens living in that county and the exorbitant property taxes

[Clipper]

Back to those famous "federal grants" again. The grants subsidize such items for a time, and then when the grant money runs out, the local taxpayer is left holding the bag. UPD recently received grants for the department, and if I recall, the grants are good for two or three years before the taxpayer takes over paying the bill.

If I lived there I would take exception to the idea of troopers starting out at $75K. Hell, Utica cops don't start out at that level and they are in a combat zone almost every night and day. City cops are killed every day by gunfire in cities across the nation. I think if one looked at statistics, one would find that there are more state troopers killed in auto accidents than there are incidents of troopers being shot in the line of duty. I don't have statistics to back that statement, but that seems to be the trend I see in various media reports of incidents involving police officers lost in the line of duty.

I think if the research were done, NY State HAS been held hostage by the public employees unions. Law has always prevented Federal Civil Service workers from negotiating anything other than working conditions and that is what should be the case with state and local employees. Our federal benefits are far from exhorbitant, but they are fair and adequate. Public employee benefits should be set by law and not open to negotiation. Simple enough. I would be hard pressed to think of a civil service job that leaves an employee suffering from a lack of benefits. If a civil servant doesn't like the benefit package or thinks it is inadequate, they can always go out the same door they came in and look elsewhere. Nobody is held hostage or forced to stay on the job. In some cases people like Hoffa have taken unions from a role of protecting the employee to the role of holding up the employer without a mask or gun in the interest of getting more and more for a greedy membership. Autoworkers are one perfect example of the extortion by unions.

I have to agree with JR's anology and comparisons. I remember E-3 pay of $77 a payday, plus combat pay. Didn't get much better with E-4 and E-5. I don't know what a soldier's take home pay is now, but I flat ass guarantee it isn't $75K or $100K.

I guess it is one's perogative to defend their union loyalty right up until the day that their union prices their asses right out of a job.