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Post by dgriffin on Jul 3, 2011 9:12:44 GMT -5
Geez, Clipper, now you're making me feel bad. It's really OK you weren't aware of my spiritual leanings ... most people wouldn't care. A few more thoughts: I guess you came away from childhood Catholicism with some of the same unpleasant memories of purgatory, and hell, and punishment and fear that I did. Yes, but like you and most of us, we found our own path. And I hasten to point out we're remembering what we heard as children from adults who were speaking to us as children. I've never thought anyone was out to hurt me or scare me. Well .... maybe a few of 'em were. We may quite well believe much the same, although you are more eloquent in describing it. I simply profess to have a deep faith in the diety that I choose to call God, and in the power of prayer, yet don't subscribe to any "specific religion".
There's nothing more eloquent than that. I really wish you'd continue to write. You definitely have a gift for it. As for the politician in question. ... I don't see him as being conflicted to a point of spending any time worrying about his stance on the issue. I simply see him as just another double talking hypocrite politician ....
Hahaha! Can't disagree with that! But to be fair, he found a path between his beliefs and his duty, so to speak, although as I've said a few times, I wouldn't label that "holding to his beliefs." He can call it what he wants, however. ... but at least he voted for what he thought was the wishes of those that elected him ... Yup, I've conceded that, and FA has made that point very well. There's something we all agree with. What I find more interesting than the non-issues issues of the day touted by politicians is our individual walks. They form the story of each of our lives, probably the most interesting aspect of us. How we got from scared little kids to adults, from being able to see only black and white to eventually finding ourselves able to deal with grey and hold questions in our hands without expecting answers is a heroic process, I think. My friend Bruce from "A God To Worry About" is now 80 and facing a future with looming health problems. "What future?" he likes to say with a smile. "At my age, all I literally have is the present. And the past, of course. It was a strange trip." Sometimes the light's all shinin' on me Other times I can barely see Lately it occurs to me What a long, strange trip it's been
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Post by Clipper on Jul 3, 2011 10:06:04 GMT -5
"I've never thought anyone was out to hurt me or scare me. Well .... maybe a few of 'em were." You must have experienced more mellow nuns and priests than I did. I was SERIOUSLY INTIMIDATED AND FILLED WITH FEAR by a couple of nuns at St Pauls in Whitesboro in the 50's that would strike fear in Satan himself. I also took catechism lessons from Father Lutz and Father Quinn, and on occasion there was an elderly priest, Father Coveneigh that was the pastor at the time. He was an intimidating old man with a gruff voice and stern face. ( Today I would describe him as nothing short of a miserable old fart) Not at all the smiling and pleasant countenance of the younger priests. He spent his entire time in our class, stressing the horrors of hell, and scaring us to death with the prospects of prolonged time in purgatory should we not behave. His sermons carried the same intimidating tone. Confession was the last straw for me, haha. I used to line up to shake the priest's hand after mass. Once I started attending confession, I confessed to the same menial offenses that any young boy would be guilty of, but it no longer was fun to see the priest after mass. I always thought to myself, "this guy knows every bad thing I have ever done in my life. He must think I am a really bad person for sure." My sins may have been as serious as cussing a couple times, puffing a cigar that a friend stole from his dad down at the coal sheds in Whitesboro, or disobeying my mother in some way or another. Real show stoppers that would most certainly doom me to hell for sure. lol. I've hijacked the thread, so I will put it back on track. www.uticaod.com/latestnews/x230660879/Obama-administration-supports-lesbian-employees-caseGee, in my personal opinion, the Obama administration has it right for a change. I know that is shocking, coming from me. This case, being tried in San Francisco, is just one example and one reminder that the passage of the law in NY is only a minor victory overall. The same sex marriage thing is going to be a contentious issue for a long time to come. It is a long way from becoming universally accepted across the country, or on a national scale. It is a MAJOR victory for the gay and lesbian communities in NY. Hey, Mt. Rushmore most likely started with one man, a stone chisel, a hammer and an idea. Whether same sex marriage ever becomes legal in all 50 states remains to be seen. Damn sure won't be in MY lifetime.
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 3, 2011 10:56:27 GMT -5
I kinda think our national consciousness would normally lose interest in the issue. Without staged awareness events, things would likely go back to, "Oh, that's Bill and Frank. They live down the street. Together, you know?" And today, that might be followed by, "They actually got married!" But if some people and/or organizations have a stake in the issue being more than just one part of American Life, then we'll continue to hear about it. That could well be the case. Maybe all of this is just a prelude to, "Say ... why can't THREE people get married?" Or even, "I wanna marry my dog!" I am not being derisive. All the logic I've heard about same-sex marriage might apply to many different combinations, but probably not with Rover. It's called dilution of purpose. And it's begun.
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Post by Clipper on Jul 3, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -5
"why can't THREE people get married?" To me THAT is a scary scenario. The Mormons and other religious sects subscribed to polygamy for years. ME? I was never able to hold together a marriage with ONE wife, ROFL. Can't imagine standing in divorce court, in a "two against one" situation. One might become a strong proponent for suicide if placed in that situation. As for marrying their dog, I think I saw a woman in Walmart the other day that had done just that. She was a clean cut, and fairly attractive person, but she was accompanied by this unwashed, foul smelling, greasy haired, meth mouthed, blob of protoplasm that about gagged me when I passed them in the aisle. Just something about the guys appearance that made a person suspect that Fido might have snuck up on his mama at some point, .
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Post by corner on Jul 3, 2011 14:34:57 GMT -5
"why can't THREE people get married?" To me THAT is a scary scenario. The Mormons and other religious sects subscribed to polygamy for years. ME? I was never able to hold together a marriage with ONE wife, ROFL. Can't imagine standing in divorce court, in a "two against one" situation. One might become a strong proponent for suicide if placed in that situation. As for marrying their dog, I think I saw a woman in Walmart the other day that had done just that. She was a clean cut, and fairly attractive person, but she was accompanied by this unwashed, foul smelling, greasy haired, meth mouthed, blob of protoplasm that about gagged me when I passed them in the aisle. Just something about the guys appearance that made a person suspect that Fido might have snuck up on his mama at some point, . must be hung like a pony
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Post by Clipper on Jul 3, 2011 14:47:01 GMT -5
LOL, anything is possible Corner, but she would have to get by the body odor that about knocked me out when I passed him. The guy was just nasty, haha.
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Post by corner on Jul 3, 2011 15:04:02 GMT -5
some of em like it down and dirty
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Post by firstamendment on Jul 3, 2011 20:52:20 GMT -5
This is what happens when people aren't legally able to get married: old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110703/ap_on_re_us/us_sham_marine_marriagesCAMP PENDLETON, Calif. – Military officials are charging three California-based Marine corporals with fraud and larceny for entering in a pair of sham marriages to collect housing funding, officials said. The military alleges that a lesbian couple — one a Marine, the other a civilian — decided to live together off base and wanted to collect the $1,200 housing benefit granted to married Marines. The female Marine found a male Marine willing to get married, allowing them to collect the housing benefit, and the civilian woman also eventually married a Marine and collected funds, 1st Lt. Maureen Dooley, a spokeswoman at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego, said Saturday. The female Marine, Cpl. Ashley Vice, told San Diego's KGTV-TV that she and her partner, Jaime Murphy, were forced to enter sham marriages because the military doesn't provide allowances for unmarried couples and they couldn't afford to live off base without the extra money. She and her partner only wanted to "be a family," Vice said. They can volunteer to serve and die for their country but they can't legally wed. I'm trying to reconcile that but I can't seem to get it to balance. Something wrong with the ethical math here.
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Post by firstamendment on Jul 3, 2011 21:30:28 GMT -5
Yes, Grisanti showed two different sets of beliefs, and that is not uncommon to find. Matter of fact, he more or less has to. He has his own personal beliefs which may or may not agree with his professional beliefs.
Consider Swimmy is also an attorney. Think of attorney-client privalege. Lets say he has a client he is representing in a murder case. His client discloses to him he did actually kill the person he is charged with. What does he do? It is a moral dilemma. His conscience would tell him to report the crime, but his professional obligation prevents him. Breaching attorney-client privalege is career suicide and most likely not admissible as evidence.
Grisanti had to weigh in similar fashion, his personal beliefs and values with that of what was legal. The religious carve-outs allowed him to reconcile the two where both sets of ideals could exist and not pose a conflict. He protected his and others' religious beliefs while at the same time doing what he believed to be the legally correct thing. Matter of fact, he precisely shows how it is possible to separate the civil from the religious aspect of marriage.
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 3, 2011 22:52:11 GMT -5
This is what happens when people aren't legally able to get married: Well, you could look at it as a failure of the system to accommodate a couple who wanted it their way or you could look at it as a failure of the system to accommodate a couple who wanted it their way. If you get my drift.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Jul 3, 2011 23:20:58 GMT -5
We had a bit of a sticky situation today. Our seven year old granddaughter asked Grandma about 2 boys wanting to get married.
I was very grateful that question didn't start with "Grandpa."
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Post by Clipper on Jul 4, 2011 7:28:16 GMT -5
I would say that same sex marriage and the publicity in the media has opened the door to making that facts of life lecture much more complicated.
Granddaughter: Grandma, can two boys get married? Grandma: Yes dear, they can. Grandaughter: Grandma, can they have babies like my mommy and daddy did after they got married? Grandma: YOU BETTER GO ASK GRANDPA TO ANSWER THAT ONE!
Good luck Clarence, lol.
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 5, 2011 0:00:09 GMT -5
I miss a few days, I miss a lot. I'll get back to y'all later!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 8:47:08 GMT -5
Quote from Alan "Clipper and Dave why are the two of you so angry at the Catholic Church. I get the impression that God is Catholic for the two of you and that is not true. I can see being angry at some of the old priests and old nun's but all they were doing in those day was teaching what they learned. I have know some of them.It has been nothing like that at all in the past 20 or 25 years. I think the old Baptist hell and brimstone preacher has to be feared more than a few old nuns and priests. It has been nothing like that at all in the past 20 or 25 years. The Catholic Church would love to welcome both of you back. Times have changed."
I am not angry with the Catholic church Alan. I really have no feelings about the Catholic church whatsoever. I don't like the hypocritical way they covered up for perverted bastards that molested little boys, while parading as pious and trustworthy clergy, but other than that, I could hardly be guility of being "angry" with the church itself. Kathy is a Catholic. I have attended mass with her when she has found herself inclined to attend. I simply was not spiritually moved by the experience but was not abhorred by or angered by it either. While I happen to have found the diety that I call God in a church basement in the 70's, he didn't "live" there. It was not "God's house". MY God lives in the hearts and souls of anyone that prays. I pray all the time and I can attest to the fact that prayers ARE answered. MY prayers are silent communications, requests for help, mercy, or healing for others, or help and guidance for myself in dealing with spiritual issues or issues where divine intervention and guidance is wanted. Be assured Alan that I am not angry at the Catholic Church, but one might tell the local priest that he and Tom Bodette don't need to conern themselves with leaving the light on for me. I won't be coming back as a practicing Catholic in this lifetime.
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Post by stoney on Jul 5, 2011 9:18:05 GMT -5
Corner you crack me up!!! Just suddenly you throw in these little gems... ;D
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