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Post by bobbbiez on Jun 16, 2011 10:46:23 GMT -5
 A bill to prevent protesting at our military funerals will be presented to the legislators for a vote shortly and to our governor for final approval.  I say it's about damn time and applaud NYS legislators for having the balls to be the front runners. I don't give a damn if it offends some. This form of protesting does not belong at any one's funeral. Sacred moments should remain sacred. 
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 15:20:47 GMT -5
A bill to prevent protesting at our military funerals will be presented to the legislators for a vote shortly and to our governor for final approval. I say it's about damn time and applaud NYS legislators for having the balls to be the front runners. I don't give a damn if it offends some. This form of protesting does not belong at any one's funeral. Sacred moments should remain sacred. How true. I can only imagine the number of people who don't agree. Is this the same Bill that keeps the protester's far away from the funeral? Or something different |
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Post by firstamendment on Jun 16, 2011 16:47:28 GMT -5
I agree with the idea of wanting to stop these disgusting protests at funerals, but its a hard sell to infringe on people's rights to free speach and free assembly. This bill needs to have the right balance of restraint.
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Post by oldnewhartfordboy on Jun 16, 2011 18:02:15 GMT -5
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Post by JGRobinson on Jun 16, 2011 20:17:25 GMT -5
Sorry BZ, Im torn on this one and probably not gonna make any friends with this stand, it even goes against many of the things I stand for 'cept one, the Constitution and that is my secondary guiding light, my primary reference for life is The Bible.
The retired Infantry NCO in me wants to mop the floor with their faces! The Proud American in me wants to do the same thing but we both value the constitution more than anything else this country has to offer.
I give the flag burners the same distance; to them that flag is nothing, to me it is everything. When they burn it, they only disrespect themselves because they have no respect for me, the flag or this nation to begin with. Those well intentioned laws that violate our rights to protect the rights of others or visa versa only empower more Wackos to challenge natural order and freedom.
The first time I promised to defend that right was in 1980, I did it four times after and meant it each and every time. I would give my life to defend their right to protest peacefully, at the same time I would happily stand strongly on the perimeter of the Cemetery and defend the rights of the fallen warrior to an honorable burial, they deserve no less than that and likely a whole lot more.
That's the wonder, splendor and beauty of our Country, It is also one of our Achilles heels. I dont respect a single thing the POS zealots who are doing this have to say but they certainly have the right to say it if they do it peacefully and outside of the ceremonial locations boundary lines.
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Post by bobbbiez on Jun 16, 2011 21:04:15 GMT -5
The senate has already approved this bill. JG, like you I am a very proud American and I really don't care if I'm not gonna make any friends with my stand on this subject. I respect your opinion on defending these protesters "their right to protest peacefully." I don't see these protests as peaceful if they are causing emotions to raise beyond human control and that is exactly what will happen sooner or later. These protesters are infringing on other people's rights. There comes a time when we have to defend the "rights of everyone," including those who are burying their loved ones who have the "right" to do that in peace and with dignity. I truly believe if it were any one of us having to bury our loved ones with all this sh*t from the protesters going on adding to our sorrow it would be a whole different ball game. I also truly believe this is not what our forefathers meant or foreseen when they wrote the Constitution. I believe they are all rolling over in their graves with the same disgust I have as some people are totally abusing the rights with their interpretation of our Constitution. What ever happen to majority rules? 
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Post by dgriffin on Jun 16, 2011 22:36:28 GMT -5
I can only guess the boys in Albany are grandstanding again, proposing a law they know will be judged unconstitutional. Great vote getter, though.
What ought to happen to those who hold such disrespectful (to the dead, to the flag) protests at funerals for servicemen is they should be shunned. People who know them should stop doing business with them, stop talking to them and extend it to a boycott of any commercial activity with any company in their home town. Such lists could easily be compiled and published. The church would be shut up in less than a week. The media should report their activity in articles of no more than 100 words with no photos. The protesters should be shamed by public acclaim. There is no need to shred our Constitution into tatters for the sake of dealing with such idiots.
For example, the Westboro Baptist Church is in Topeka, Kansas.
Top manufacturers in Topeka include Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, Payless ShoeSource, Jostens Printing and Publishing, Hill's Pet Nutrition, and Frito-Lay. Southwest Publishing & Mailing Corporation, a smaller employer, has its headquarters in Topeka.
Tell your school principal you think he should boycott Jostens (they sell class rings and print yearbooks) or at least have a discussion with the Josten's rep this year indicating your school's displeasure with Topeka, Kansas and the businesses there who are doing nothing to influence or sanction the church. When the rep asks whatever could he or his company do about it, tell your principal to suggest the salesman figure it out for himself. Word will get around.
If your school principal answers in a typically stupid administrator-like "that would violate church-state rules," tell him you understand that, but principals need supportive taxpayers like yourself on their side.
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Post by JGRobinson on Jun 17, 2011 5:37:45 GMT -5
Dave uses logic that works for me, the best way to stop these things is to make sure that those distasteful bastards cant set up a placard without protesters hanging out in front of their churches and Homes, Redlining enterprises associated with their activities and just plain shunning them. Exercise personal choice and drain them of their lifeblood, money, make them live on love not hate!
Reporters and other press agents only keep them viable when they report, photograph and give microphones to these rotten pieces of garbage. Shut them down and shut them up by taking away their avenues of self promotion.
They are getting there money from somewhere. Identify their donors, employers and every single person associated with their organization. Post there names, addresses and phone numbers on the internet. Dont sell them fuel for their cars, extend them any credit, show zero mercy, buy nothing that passes through their fingers and dont employ them.
Fight fire with Nukes! Make them start hiring lawyers to sue us, tie them up in litigation so tightly that they don't have the time or the money to protest! If they can get legal representation, withdraw patronage from them also, make them client-less. Treat every one of them and everyone that gives aid to them like they have the Plague, Leprosy and Cooties.
This law will fail the the test of the Courts quickly, they cannot just write laws to protect one parties rights by compromising another citizens freedoms even if it feels right. Were not without the power to persuade without new laws. We dont need the government to validate our feelings, we know right from wrong, protesting at Military Funerals is wrong on every level. We The People are the Nation and we can and must empower ourselves to act like one!
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Post by Swimmy on Jun 17, 2011 6:04:09 GMT -5
Dave uses logic that works for me, the best way to stop these things is to make sure that those distasteful bastards cant set up a placard without protesters hanging out in front of their churches and Homes, Redlining enterprises associated with their activities and just plain shunning them. Exercise personal choice and drain them of their lifeblood, money, make them live on love not hate! Like I tell some of my clients who have ex-spouses trying to cut their children out of their lives but sue them for child support, stop making payments and you'll see how quickly you'll be seeing your kids. Same concept applies here. If you want to really effectuate something, stop the money flow. |
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Post by virgilgal on Jun 17, 2011 7:30:13 GMT -5
The actions of these "church members" is an abomination! I believe most of our country would agree. I had read a while ago that most of the church is from members of one family and that they are almost all very prominent lawyers who know exactly how to best circumvent any legal challenges. Perhaps the Bar could consider dis-barring them? They would lose their livelihood then... and I don't think they have supporters anywhere who would continue to fund them. In the meantime, I have been so grateful to the groups who have gathered at funerals and made a huge circle around the area far enough away to keep the protesters voices from being heard.
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Post by Swimmy on Jun 17, 2011 8:23:44 GMT -5
There is nothing unethical about not breaking the law. These days, the only way to be disbarred, it seems, is if you commingle your clients' funds with your personal funds. Even then, if you have the right connections, you only receive a wrist slap. However, if you protest outside their offices and dissuade would-be clients from retaining them, well, now you've cut off the money train.
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Post by virgilgal on Jun 17, 2011 8:45:21 GMT -5
In the article I read, it said that the city does not appreciate their "church" but that they are considered the best lawyers around and are frequently engaged for that reason! What does it take to tip the scales?  |
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Post by longtimer on Jun 17, 2011 11:54:36 GMT -5
bobbbiez, we actually do not live in a country where majority rules and never have. We live in a country where majority rules only if it does not infringe on the basic rights of the minority so I have to agree with JGR on this one. I simply am not willing to start down that slippery slope no matter how just it may seem.
While the cause is wonderful, given the Supreme Courts ruling this is probably a waste of time also. I saw a report a while back that said the Westboro Baptist Church had lost all of it's members except that one family so maybe the isolation policy is working.
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Post by firstamendment on Jun 17, 2011 13:57:45 GMT -5
That's the problem. How to pick and choose what groups and what messages to censor or bar? This creates a lot of problems. What's to keep government from passing laws to bar you all from displaying whatever causes you want to? Also, there's a pretty fine line between lawful protests and harassment. It seems protesters are good at keeping from crossing that line. Harassment is about the closest law that fits which is already illegal.
Now, if these are private cemetaries we're talking about, then there is nothing preventing the owners of such properties of setting their own rules. There is nothing prohibitting them from keeping protesters away.
And again, I am not condoning the message of these groups. I find them disturbing and their choices of venues to be rather distasteful. But, we still cannot jeopardize freedoms for the sake of security or whatever else.
These are situations where just because someone has the right to, doesn't mean its the right thing to do. I have not agreed with the Iraq war but I will not go so far as to dishonor soldiers who volunteered to serve our country and performed the job they were ordered to do. The protest lies against those who marched these men and women into that war. Don't shoot the messenger, so to speak. Hate the warmongers who decided sending troops into Iraq was the right thing to do, not the troops who followed orders, even if they themselves disagreed with it as well.
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A bill to prevent protesting at our military funerals will be presented to the legislators for a vote shortly and to our governor for final approval. 
