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Post by Swimmy on Mar 30, 2011 8:40:16 GMT -5
I'm not arguing, either. I thought we were just discussing. I was explaining why I disagree with your opinion.
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Post by firstamendment on Mar 30, 2011 8:53:44 GMT -5
I am not a history buff but I do not recall sales taxes being this huge issue back when the Oneidas were operating a simple dinky bingo hall in the middle of nowhere.
Just sayin'..
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Post by corner on Mar 30, 2011 11:34:52 GMT -5
Ray is a principle but the real success story here is the Oneida's themselves. Long after Hallbritter is gone, the Indian people in their Sovereign Nation will receive the fruits of their labors. They fought and paid for it, they deserve it Without Ray, they would not have succeeded. Remember, even many of his own people in the beginning did oppose him but finally came to see his ideas as best for them. He proved himself right to his people and to all of us. I recently visited some of my Native American friends on the new reservation and it is absolutely beautiful. These are the same friends I visited on the old reservation which was worse then a city dump. They do give Ray all the credit for waking them up to having a better life and working together to gain it. Gotta give the man all the kudos he earned for his people. i dunno but it seems the shenendoah family tree still has a major hardon for the guy had the pleasure of talking tohim a coupleofyears ago very savvy as to what is going on throught the whole enterprise and very intelligent, i agree that without his leadership the oneidas would be rotting in their old trailer park smoking and drinking themselves into extinction
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Post by firstamendment on Mar 30, 2011 13:13:45 GMT -5
Ray Halbritter is no dummy. Harvard educated from what I was told. Suffice to say, there are many elders in the Tribe who do not recognize him as the leader. His control of the Oneidas was not your typical assention in the normal sense of tribal tradition. I believe it could be equated to a coup where he seized power.
Beyond, that, as long as he is true to his people, the Oneida Indians, and the endeavors profit the tribe as a whole, more power to him. If he simply capitalizes on his benefits of being a Native American while ignoring the needs of the Oneidas, that makes him no different than any other snaky politician.
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 30, 2011 13:16:10 GMT -5
I'm not arguing, either. I thought we were just discussing. I was explaining why I disagree with your opinion. I know, Swim. I didn't mean it like that. Dave
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Post by Clipper on Mar 30, 2011 13:28:49 GMT -5
FA, taxes vs sovereignty has always been the bone of contention. The issue really escalated when the original smoke shop opened on the old reservation, got worse when they opened the gas station across the road, and has gone on and on ever since.
I remember when they first opened the gas station, they actually were so busy that they had people directing traffic in the driveway. You waited in line, and when a pump became available, someone would direct you to move forward and go to the pumps.
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Post by firstamendment on Mar 30, 2011 13:42:08 GMT -5
But isn't all of that already addressed via Federal Treaties?
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Post by Clipper on Mar 30, 2011 14:00:50 GMT -5
It sure is, and that is why all the toodoo is a bunch of futile baloney. That is why Townsend and his cronies were wasting their time and the county taxpayers money in fighting them.
I am always for the underdog and I have been in the cheering section for the OIN from the beginning. Halbritter may be the legal and the business head that developed the ideas that brought them to where they are today, but the Oneida people are actually very ambitious and hard working people. They were labeled lazy because those that lived on the old reservation were not able to find employment thanks to the bigots and racists that infest the CNY area.
Whatever the elders may think of Ray, or whatever his status might be in the tribe itself, he has been instrumental in pulling the tribe out of poverty and in giving them back their pride and equal status as citizens of this great country. That is worth millions by itself, regardless of tribal politics.
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Post by Clipper on Mar 30, 2011 14:11:00 GMT -5
As for the alcoholism on the old res, I have to say that there is historical evidence that alcohol and Native Americans have never mixed well. I have to believe it is a chemical thing. I served with a full blooded Sioux in the Navy and he was a raving maniac when he drank. The tribes in Alaska are forbidden from having alcohol in the villages because it causes so much trouble among them. I would say that is the principle behind the Turning Stone originally not wanting alcohol to become a regular item available there. I remember buying an NA beer there once, and there was a bar that made non alcoholic cocktails. That was not my bag. Just give me the diet coke.
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Post by JGRobinson on Mar 30, 2011 18:43:54 GMT -5
I believe your right Clipper, A buddy of mine over in Germany was the European Rodeo Champ, Ivan Lookinghorse. One of the calmest, coolest guys you ever met until you added booze to him, then he became dangerous....
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 30, 2011 19:41:12 GMT -5
It sure is, and that is why all the toodoo is a bunch of futile baloney. That is why Townsend and his cronies were wasting their time and the county taxpayers money in fighting them. I am always for the underdog and I have been in the cheering section for the OIN from the beginning. Halbritter may be the legal and the business head that developed the ideas that brought them to where they are today, but the Oneida people are actually very ambitious and hard working people. They were labeled lazy because those that lived on the old reservation were not able to find employment thanks to the bigots and racists that infest the CNY area. Whatever the elders may think of Ray, or whatever his status might be in the tribe itself, he has been instrumental in pulling the tribe out of poverty and in giving them back their pride and equal status as citizens of this great country. That is worth millions by itself, regardless of tribal politics. Clip, agree completely with you here. Not all Oneidas are against Halbritter. Just as we can be divided in thoughts and support for our own leaders. Most of the Oneida Council have not opposed him in any of his plans because they believe his decisions are correct and in the best interest of his people. Halbritter becoming Chief would be very rare because that is a ritual usually handed down in the line of hereditary. Don't let anyone kid ya, Halbritter is the reason for the Oneida's success and raising out of poverty. From what I was always made to understand it is a medical fact that our Native Americans do have an chemical unbalance in their body system that has a terrible affect when it comes to their intake of alcohol.
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Post by Clipper on Mar 30, 2011 21:44:29 GMT -5
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 30, 2011 23:22:58 GMT -5
lol! Must have had a moment of truth.
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Post by Swimmy on Mar 31, 2011 6:46:21 GMT -5
I agree with Clipper: we have all agreed and supported Clipper and Ralph for the creation and maintenance of this forum! :-)
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 31, 2011 20:27:52 GMT -5
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