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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 20, 2009 23:39:40 GMT -5
Swimy, I can go on disputing with facts all you just stated, but as Clipper and Dave said, "this topic has been beated to death." I leave you with your thinking. I will continue to promote and participating in programs that are available to the public that can produce a good relationship between the citizens and the police departments. Without this mission of educating both parties nothing will ever change. I'm out of here.
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Dec 21, 2009 1:28:26 GMT -5
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Post by Ralph on Dec 21, 2009 1:53:07 GMT -5
Interesting Gear.
But is this being done to protect the Police or the Public?
It is because we have more bad Police arresting good people?
Or more bad people accosting good Police?
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Dec 21, 2009 2:03:04 GMT -5
Interesting Gear. But is this being done to protect the Police or the Public? It is because we have more bad Police arresting good people? Or more bad people accosting good Police? It's a win-win for everyone. Video recordings are a priceless tool for prosecutions, and the constant presence of a camera should encourage officers to remember the value of politeness. Ubiquitous surveillance helps keep everyone honest.
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Post by Ralph on Dec 21, 2009 2:23:12 GMT -5
Oh I agree wholeheartedly! Just a sad state of affairs when there has to be that much of an expense to keep everyone honest, but I suppose it is one way to avoid those frivolous lawsuits, or at least a quick way to end the discussion.
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Post by corner on Dec 21, 2009 7:21:57 GMT -5
i think part of it is peoples frustration with government in genereal esp at the higher levels and frustration with the bill of goods sold to us by the black messiah, and then people are stopped by police at the lowest level of government and here is the guy or gal they can take their frustrations out.....
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 21, 2009 7:58:31 GMT -5
All you seem to be promoting are for civilians to educate themselves. But the police who don't respect the constitution seem to get away with not having to educate themselves. You keep promoting this "both ways" theory, but so far, it seems to be only one way.
Another thing, with all the PR the police are doing, like taking underprivileged children to the mall, do you really think such expensive PR tactics would be necessary if the police worked harder to respect the constitution?
You do remember my story of campus police back when I was a freshman in college, don't you? The one where the cop sped through a stop sign, 2 yield signs, and almost hit us with his vehicle to tell us that crossing in a crosswalk is a ticket-able offense? With ignorance like that, of course PR tactics are necessary. I'm all about putting the criminals away, but not at the expense of our constitutional rights.
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Post by rodwilson on Dec 21, 2009 9:01:21 GMT -5
i think part of it is peoples frustration with government in genereal esp at the higher levels and frustration with the bill of goods sold to us by the black messiah, and then people are stopped by police at the lowest level of government and here is the guy or gal they can take their frustrations out..... Yeah, what corner said. Law enforcement is the "man", "the establishment" on the street and people are far more likely to encounter them than other officials.
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Post by corner on Dec 21, 2009 11:13:17 GMT -5
just send me some of the glue from the dead horse
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Post by rodwilson on Dec 21, 2009 11:48:54 GMT -5
Great example Dave. This is a guy who has NO business being a cop and NO skills to handle the situation. You want a reason that people are losing respect for LE Officers? Just ask the wife and kid. The widespread availability of video and information via media makes situations like this just about a daily occurrence.
This was a PERFECT example of an asshole hiding the badge and the law. I have cash $$$ that he carries on like this off the job too but nobody will him a proper ass kicking because of the badge. Too bad. It's ALL about "you're gonna do what I say".
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Post by stoney on Dec 21, 2009 12:07:12 GMT -5
"Don't tase me, bro'!"
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Post by rodwilson on Dec 21, 2009 15:48:08 GMT -5
I don't think the guy needed to sign the ticket. It would still be valid. IMHO, the cop should have just given him the ticket and left. My thoughts exactly. The ticket was written, it's now in the system and if the guy doesn't respond to the ticket, he'll pay the piper. I'd imagine that there must be some type of policy or mechanism for somebody refusing to sign a ticket. This guy can't be the first. The thing that really stood out to me was the calmness which with he carried this out. He wasn't frightened, threatened or angry. He just decided that the guy wasn't compliant enough and zapped him.
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 21, 2009 17:07:43 GMT -5
All you seem to be promoting are for civilians to educate themselves. But the police who don't respect the constitution seem to get away with not having to educate themselves. You keep promoting this "both ways" theory, but so far, it seems to be only one way. Another thing, with all the PR the police are doing, like taking underprivileged children to the mall, do you really think such expensive PR tactics would be necessary if the police worked harder to respect the constitution? You do remember my story of campus police back when I was a freshman in college, don't you? The one where the cop sped through a stop sign, 2 yield signs, and almost hit us with his vehicle to tell us that crossing in a crosswalk is a ticket-able offense? With ignorance like that, of course PR tactics are necessary. I'm all about putting the criminals away, but not at the expense of our constitutional rights. Why do you insist on degrading "anything"the police department does to promote better understanding between civilians and their departments. You see the time the officers spend with the underprivileged kids as an expensive PR tactics when it was done so the younger generalize could interact with officers on a personal basis which is greatly needed. The same as when the police departments instituted the Police Cadet programs for high school students. The officers could have very easily given the money collected and give it to another organization to distribute the gifts to the children, but instead, they chose to spend their time with the children. As far as the "expense" that money spend on those kids came from officers donating their time all year long in running fund raisers. The money didn't come out of your pocket unless you attended one of their fund raisers which I'm pretty sure you didn't. For your information officers are trained in public affairs and continued to be trained on a daily basis as situations come up because laws are amended and changed constantly, but the departments also runs many programs where the civilian can participate in where both parties can interact with each and get a better understanding of each other. The police department also make themselves completely available to ANY organizations and schools to hear the civilians complaints and take all information back to the department to correct those complaints and to improve their relationship with the public. We in the Neighborhood Watch Groups have requested the police department be at all our meetings and they have complied. Many complaints have been corrected because of that interaction. The Deputy Police Chief has given his personal number to people attending those meetings if they are disturbed by an officer's actions with the assurance he will take care of business and he has. The police department has instituted the Citizens Police Academy and the Ride Along with a officer so they can interact with civilians and both parties can get a better understanding of each other. There are many other programs the police department instituted for the reason of improving a better relations and understanding of the public. What the hell more do you want? I am a civilian and I am the one promoting such programs as mentioned in knowing they have to take place to form a better relationship between "both" parties. I also see the police department is reaching out for that with all the programs they can come up with but the civilians also has to take advantage of these programs offered. Nothing "one way" about that. The only one I see speaking out of one side of their mouth is you by not offering any reasonable solutions in bettering the relationship before all ends up in the courts. It's very disturbing to me that you in your position is promoting civilians to argue on the streets what should be argued and decided by the courts.
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 21, 2009 17:40:35 GMT -5
Why do you insist on degrading "anything"the police department does to promote better understanding between civilians and their departments. You see the time the officers spend with the underprivileged kids as an expensive PR tactics when it was done so the younger generalize could interact with officers on a personal basis which is greatly needed. The same as when the police departments instituted the Police Cadet programs for high school students. The officers could have very easily given the money collected and give it to another organization to distribute the gifts to the children, but instead, they chose to spend their time with the children. As far as the "expense" that money spend on those kids came from officers donating their time all year long in running fund raisers. The money didn't come out of your pocket unless you attended one of their fund raisers which I'm pretty sure you didn't. And were they off duty during these fund raisers? Or working on the taxpayer dime? All I'm saying is these pr stunts would not be necessary if the officers were forced to learn the constitution and respect it. You have two video examples, plus my experiences, where the constitution meant bupkus. For your information officers are trained in public affairs and continued to be trained on a daily basis as situations come up because laws are amended and changed constantly, but the departments also runs many programs where the civilian can participate in where both parties can interact with each and get a better understanding of each other. Then they need better training, especially when it comes to bedside manners. The police department also make themselves completely available to ANY organizations and schools to hear the civilians complaints and take all information back to the department to correct those complaints and to improve their relationship with the public. We in the Neighborhood Watch Groups have requested the police department be at all our meetings and they have complied. Many complaints have been corrected because of that interaction. The Deputy Police Chief has given his personal number to people attending those meetings if they are disturbed by an officer's actions with the assurance he will take care of business and he has. I've seen where my complaints go because abusers still get away with violating orders of protection that the law mandates arrests on. And we still see countless other abuses by cops. See second video. The police department has instituted the Citizens Police Academy and the Ride Along with a officer so they can interact with civilians and both parties can get a better understanding of each other. There are many other programs the police department instituted for the reason of improving a better relations and understanding of the public. What the hell more do you want? A change in the attitude of do what I say or I will make you pay. A citizen has every right to discuss why an officer is doing something without the fear of being arrested. That poor guy in the video Dave posted only asked to know how fast the officer thought he was going. And he got tased for it! So much for the constitution. I am a civilian and I am the one promoting such programs as mentioned in knowing they have to take place to form a better relationship between "both" parties. I also see the police department is reaching out for that with all the programs they can come up with but the civilians also has to take advantage of these programs offered. Nothing "one way" about that. The only one I see speaking out of one side of their mouth is you by not offering any reasonable solutions in bettering the relationship before all ends up in the courts. It's very disturbing to me that you in your position is promoting civilians to argue on the streets what should be argued and decided by the courts. I have offered a reasonable solution, multiple times so I won't repeat it. I'm promoting the change in this ludicrous notion that the officer is god and the civilian who pays his paycheck is nothing more than a peon to bully. I have every right to ask why an officer who pulls up behind me at a gas station while I'm pumping gas why he needs my license and registration without having to be arrested. I have every right to kick an officer out of my apartment who does not have probable cause and no warrant to be there. These things should never end up in court in the first place if the officers doing these stupid things stepped back and thought about the constitution.
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 21, 2009 19:50:15 GMT -5
Why do you insist on degrading "anything"the police department does to promote better understanding between civilians and their departments. You see the time the officers spend with the underprivileged kids as an expensive PR tactics when it was done so the younger generalize could interact with officers on a personal basis which is greatly needed. The same as when the police departments instituted the Police Cadet programs for high school students. The officers could have very easily given the money collected and give it to another organization to distribute the gifts to the children, but instead, they chose to spend their time with the children. As far as the "expense" that money spend on those kids came from officers donating their time all year long in running fund raisers. The money didn't come out of your pocket unless you attended one of their fund raisers which I'm pretty sure you didn't. And were they off duty during these fund raisers? Or working on the taxpayer dime? All I'm saying is these pr stunts would not be necessary if the officers were forced to learn the constitution and respect it. You have two video examples, plus my experiences, where the constitution meant bupkus. Swimmy, guess I'll have to inform you, (which gives me pleasure being able to exercise what I've learned in these different programs available to the public), that when one becomes a cop he is a cop 24 hours a day not just for an eight hour a day shift according to police department's policy and procedures. In other words, if a cop is off his shift and is driving down the street going home and sees you being attacked by some thugs he isn't gonna just drive by because his shift is over and his family is waiting for him, he's expected and will jump out to save your sorry a**. Now, that is civilians getting more them full value of their tax dollars. ;D The answer to your question about who is paying for the officers taking the children to the mall Christmas shopping. All 40 officers taking time away from their own children donated their time to make these underprivileged children happy and to do some necessary PR work with these children for a better relationship that you don't feel is not being done by our police departments. As far as you going off with all the other legal-jumble about rights. Again, I state, I have not and am not disputing anyones rights whether it be for the civilians or the police. I am, again, saying "prevention" before the facts by educating BOTH sides is more important then having it go into any court actions. Dave can produce all the videos he wants, but again, one sided, because there are many, many more videos of police officers taking abuse, injured and being killed in traffic stops. Again, it just proves "both" sides must to be educated.
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