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Post by dave on May 1, 2014 11:04:33 GMT -5
I went to take a look at the Vintage Utica site yesterday afternoon after reading about it here and I like it. In many instances Utica looked much better way back then ,than it does now! Progress gone astray!! I really enjoyed seeing the old photo's of Riverside Mall in North Utica when it was all connected and looked like a Mall. I always liked that Mall but now I can't stand the place. Nothing is connected and once you have gone through Walmart who wants to walk so far to see another store even if it is to just walk in and browse. They lost that when the Mall was chopped up. I have never been in any of the other stores up there because of that. And I never liked Sangertown Mall it is to big. Alan, there was a time when merchants were very, very careful to cultivate the respect and good will of prospective customers and those they wanted to keep. That's because people would make a buy decision based on the merchant and his care and honesty. No longer, I guess. Today we appear to accept shoddy service and messy store surroundings and shop simply for the price, depending upon the manufacturer to make good warranties. Times change of course, and there is no bringing back the hallmarks of a previous era. But still, we miss them. |
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Post by dave on May 1, 2014 11:07:54 GMT -5
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Post by Clipper on May 1, 2014 11:31:29 GMT -5
Well Alan I guess as shopping venues evolve, the strip mall has come and gone and is now being revived in most places. I am not terribly familiar with the rapidly expanding shopping area along Commercial Drive that I guess is labeled "Consumer Square" but the few times I have been in that area, the stores were configured more like a strip mall than a mall such as Sangertown where you were inside and out of the weather while you moved from store to store.
New shopping destinations here in this area are all being built with several buildings, scattered over a large parcel of land. Some of them are grouped under one roof like an older strip mall such as the N.Utica Shopping Center, but a person has to go outside to go from one store to another. These areas are anchored by a couple of big box retailers and there are usually out parcels with chain restaurants.
One new development here is going to be anchored by Bass Pro Shops. Their new store is being built with a bowling alley and a restaurant and grill included inside the store. On the Virginia side of town they are building a shopping area that will be anchored by Lowes and Cabela's. I guess being along the interstate, retail sales is a viable option to create jobs even in today's economic climate. Both are adjacent to I-81 exits and are visible from the highway.
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Post by Clipper on May 1, 2014 11:36:30 GMT -5
Dave, I read somewhere while researching the Hotel Pershing that the Hotel Utica had four floors added to it sometime back then. In the picture I saw on the Vintage Utica site for the Hotel Pershing, the Hotel Utica definitely looked different. If you look at the photo you posted above, you can see a cornice and then an additional four floors. That makes sense. I don't think one probably has looked at that particular view before or paid much attention to the upper floors on that particular side of the building. I probably would not have been prone to looking that high up on the building as I walked along Lafayette Street.
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Post by dave on May 1, 2014 12:40:54 GMT -5
Dave, I read somewhere while researching the Hotel Pershing that the Hotel Utica had four floors added to it sometime back then. In the picture I saw on the Vintage Utica site for the Hotel Pershing, the Hotel Utica definitely looked different. If you look at the photo you posted above, you can see a cornice and then an additional four floors. That makes sense. I don't think one probably has looked at that particular view before or paid much attention to the upper floors on that particular side of the building. I probably would not have been prone to looking that high up on the building as I walked along Lafayette Street. That's the photo I'm speaking of. I'd forgotten I posted it here the other night. I don't see post numbers any longer, so it's the post dated Apr 28, 2014 at 11:39pm, on page three of this thread. The bottom photo. And yes, it doesn't look like the Hotel Utica to me, but that looks like the Chocolate Shop. So maybe your discovery of the architectural changes is the answer. One thing for sure, the 1950 Nirelstein map, above, is accurate and shows the Pershing where you said it was. |
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Post by Clipper on May 1, 2014 16:58:08 GMT -5
I was wondering when they decided to build the "motel" Utica. The 2 story motor lodge that they built behind the main hotel. I remember it being there and then I remember when they tore it down. I just don't remember the time frames. I also vaguely remember that there was a little controversy over the swimming pool when it became a mosquito breeding pool of slime and algae after the motel closed and was in the news.
Next question. Was the ramp garage on Oriskany St. West part of the Hotel Utica? Neither the ramp garage or the motel show on the map you linked as the map was from an earlier period. I see a goodyear and garage on the corner of Seneca and Oriskany, but that is not the parking garage that I am envisioning. I envisioned it as being just West of that corner, closer to the Western edge of the hotel corp property on that map.
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Post by Clipper on May 1, 2014 17:02:01 GMT -5
Digging a little deeper, I found this website that shows a reference to the motor inn at Hotel Utica. It mentions in the narrative that it would be opening in spring of 1962. Now I am straining my brain trying to remember when they demolished it, lol. motelpostcards.blogspot.com/2010/10/hotel-utica-motor-hotel-utica-new-york.htmlThis link and the narrative also answers another of my questions. It states that there was indoor parking with direct entrance to the hotel. |
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Post by Clipper on May 1, 2014 17:17:36 GMT -5
In digging a little deeper for info pertaining to the Hotel Martin, I found a couple of links. This one refers to a legal action against the owners of the hotel in reference to payments due for the paving of Oriskany Street EAST where the canal had been filled in. That puts us back in the neighborhood of the Hotel Hamilton and Martin of later years. One reference describes the Hotel Martin as having 450 rooms for rent at a rate of $2 a day in 1932. www.casetext.com/case/in-re-hotel-martin-co-of-utica (refers to the legal action.) www.cardcow.com/59090/hotel-martin-utica-new-york/ (describes the number of rooms and the price) I wonder if the Hotel Martin wasn't some how divided to create the Hotel Hamilton adjoining the Hotel Martin. I don't think either of those hotels had any place close to 450 rooms any time in OUR day did they? I also found a reference to the hotel going into bankruptcy in 1936. law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/83/231/1479189/ |
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Post by dave on May 1, 2014 17:47:20 GMT -5
Clip, I assumed when I ran that postcard that the building was never built since it isn't there today. I hadn't considered the possibility that it was built and then torn down. The "Downtowner" does have a familiar ring to it. And if it opened in '62, I hadn't yet left for NY City. But I don't remember anything about it, which would not be unusual since in those days my mind was elsewhere. But this photo from the site you found ....  doesn't look much like the buildnig on the post card I ran. Of course, the post card was a rendering of a planned future building. And just the sheer size of the overall site in the above photo seems too large of an area, even with urban renewal. Notice the additional buildings behind the modern structure in the foreground. Strange. Re the ramp garage. I wasn't even aware of it, at least I don't remember it. Re the Martin and Hamilton, yes, Mr. Martin was in court a number of times, or so it seemed from my reading of the old papers. Your theory about the Hamilton being a split-off of the Martin may be true. |
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Post by Clipper on May 1, 2014 23:36:48 GMT -5
That picture you posted from the website I linked is not the Motel that was behind the Hotel Utica. When you questioned whether they ever built it I checked with Kathy. She said that they did build it and she had a friend at the time that worked there. It was not a very large place and I don't think it was there for very long. I would love to know the history of it but haven't been able to locate anything additional on it. That website that addresses the motor hotel and it's proposed opening had no picture of the Motel Utica. The pictures attached to that site were of the interior of the big hotel and the lamplighter room. One has to wonder why it didn't succeed or last very long.
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Post by clarencebunsen on May 2, 2014 6:00:31 GMT -5
If it helps anyone's time line: when I moved here in 1984, the motel, pool and parking garage were all standing but not open. The Hotel Utica was an adult care residence called the Hunter House.
I don't remember when the motel & pool were removed. I do remember (as Clipper described) the partially filled pool being an insect breeding swamp in the heart of the city. The Hunter House became Loretto and closed. In 1999 renovation started during the Hanna administration. The city was a cosigner on the HUD loan and made many of the loan payments when the hotel owners didn't.
The parking garage is still there and still not used. Everything else on the block has been made into parking lot.
Totally off track, in December 2006 my son received his PhD on the same morning my wife received her Masters. We held the combined celebration in the Hotel Utica.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 9:58:06 GMT -5
Well Alan I guess as shopping venues evolve, the strip mall has come and gone and is now being revived in most places. I am not terribly familiar with the rapidly expanding shopping area along Commercial Drive that I guess is labeled "Consumer Square" but the few times I have been in that area, the stores were configured more like a strip mall than a mall such as Sangertown where you were inside and out of the weather while you moved from store to store. New shopping destinations here in this area are all being built with several buildings, scattered over a large parcel of land. Some of them are grouped under one roof like an older strip mall such as the N.Utica Shopping Center, but a person has to go outside to go from one store to another. These areas are anchored by a couple of big box retailers and there are usually out parcels with chain restaurants. One new development here is going to be anchored by Bass Pro Shops. Their new store is being built with a bowling alley and a restaurant and grill included inside the store. On the Virginia side of town they are building a shopping area that will be anchored by Lowes and Cabela's. I guess being along the interstate, retail sales is a viable option to create jobs even in today's economic climate. Both are adjacent to I-81 exits and are visible from the highway. We have a Consummer Square here but I don't care for it have to walk way to far to get to the store and even with a car the place is not car friendly. Someone goofed on that design. Walmart is up there and I just let the Bus do the driving for me. Bass Pro Shops has been openned. They also bought the old movie theatre up there at Rivierside Mall which they will turn into there boast showcase building. The movie theatre was recently torn down. Haven't been to Bass Pro Shopps since I have no need. |
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Post by Clipper on May 2, 2014 11:02:04 GMT -5
I try to avoid shopping at Walmart, but the last trip up there Kathy wanted a new winter jacket for everyday casual use and there was a sale in their flyer. Winter clothing sold in the South is not as warm or heavily insulated as is the items you buy up there in the colder climate areas. If you want a good warm garment here the only source would be a high end sporting goods store.
It was like dodge ball trying to avoid an accident just getting into and out of the parking lot. The traffic patterns both on commercial drive and in the parking lots are ridiculous and there were cars coming from every direction trying to fight for the lane they needed to get out of there onto Commercial drive. The only thing I can say about Walmart in NH is that it is certainly a cut above the trashy store in N Utica and the rude help that serve you there.
I haven't heard anything about the Hotel Utica's defaulting on their payments lately in the news. Has someone taken over the hotel and is actually paying the bills or has it simply dropped out of the news? The Hotel Utica is a building worth preserving, and I have hoped all along that it would become a successful and profitable venture. With all the new hotels being built in N Utica and other locations around the area, it must be a highly competitive market for the downtown hotel to compete in. Especially with the Radisson only a couple blocks away.
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Post by clarencebunsen on May 2, 2014 13:05:43 GMT -5
Joseph Carucci died a couple years ago & it seems that a change has taken place. Hotel Utica now bills itself as being part of the Ascend Collection which is part of the Choice Hotels company (Comfort Inn, Clarion, Econolodge and many others).
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Post by Clipper on May 2, 2014 14:46:20 GMT -5
That move to become a part of the Ascend Collection of hotels is a positive step in the right direction. At least it will put them on the same page as the other Ascend offerings when it comes to websites like Kayak, Orbitz, Hotline and all the others.
In today's world if a hotel cannot be found when a person enters a hotel search in their GPS unit, smart phone, or laptop they are at a distinct disadvantage.
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