July 4th's BS and the future

[Ralph]

I was informed tonight that despite numerous calls and two visits (with plenty of back up) to the conflagration of literally hundreds illegal fireworks going off on Kemble Street on July 4th ……
……despite name calling by participants and an openly aggressive attitude towards the officers on the scene….

…….that the reporting officers were told by their supervisors at the UPD to back off and STAND DOWN!!
No action was taken, citations issued or arrests made……W T F !?!?!?!?

This will now set the tone for the entire summer in Utica; for any aggressive act, any shooting, any incident in the inner city, etc.

God help us all now.
_____________________________________

It is a damn good thing that nothing around here burned, that the only thing my wife & little fid family had to suffer was the noise. That effects the birds enough.
Every house around here is over 100 years old......one ember is all it would take to level a good size city block here, and they were launching these things less than 100 feet across the street from my 141 year old home.

If anything had of happened I am sure that not a court in the land would have held me responsible for my actions afterwards.

But despite my fury at the moment I am saddened by the fact that some cat that sat in an office didn't have the cojones to call in the Troopers, Sheriff and Fire Department and address the problem.

This will truly be the summer from hell from this point forward I am afraid.

[JGRobinson]

The heat doesn't help keep Utica cool or under control.

[virgilgal]

I'll bet the fire department was not happy with that decision! Wednesday night Greek Peak had fireworks; for about an hour. I live 3 miles from them and it was very loud and I could smell the smoke laying in bed! At least they set them off by a lake. Last night a neighbor set off a ton of them. He's on the town board and a retired firefighter. I didn't say a word... Just kept praying because my house is in the middle of the woods and it is so dry; like those old houses Ralph. Must be a new generic law; let 'em celebrate...

[Ralph]

Fire house is a half block away. They could have drove a truck up and put the whole mess out in 3 minutes.......
......fireworks and crowd as well.

The house these folks live in was a beautiful residence until this past year.
Now it's just a hood hangout.

My friend told me that this was the one time in his career that he was embarrassed to be a Police Officer. What happened that night was a travesty.

[bobbbiez]

Ralph, in due respect.....!!!!! Is this the cop's first rodeo on the 4Th of July or doesn't he know whats happening in his own department or in the city while some were shooting off fireworks? Granted, it is a nuisance for the whole city when some people don't respect the law and no matter what, will ignore the law fireworks are illegal. Those numerous calls are not the priority of any police department on the 4TH of July due to the fact they take away from focusing on more serious calls and produces absolutely nothing, because when the police do arrive at the scene it's not like someone is standing there holding a freaking fire cracker or will someone point out to the police who the guilty party is. Shooting off fireworks is a violation and the penalty is just a fine if the police can find out who the guilty parties are. Good luck with that.

This cop should be totally ashamed of himself and if anything should be DAMN PROUD of his department in all they had to face on the 4TH of July. Give him my phone number so I can inform him of exactly what took place in his own department and city on the 4TH of July. Would love to personally talk to him.


1- The UPD had a 4TH of July parade to oversee
2- the UPD had to oversee all-day events at Proctor Park starting from early afternoon until the firework display was over with much later in the evening. Then crowd and traffic control.
3- the UPD had two separate incidents with two men flipping out because they were on bath salts.
4- the UPD had a motorcyclist crash into a building.
5- the UPD had a stabbing incident.
6- the UPD had two separate domestic disputes to deal with.
7- the UPD had "numerous" drunken drivers to deal with.
8- the UPD had "numerous" neighbor disputes to deal with.

Not bad for a day's work for one police department on a holiday, huh? Especially a police department working short-handed as it is now. I can go on and on with more calls they responded to on the 4TH of July but this cop can just trot himself into the Chief's office and see the reports for himself. With all the events going on in Utica for the 4TH of July and the "thousands" of people coming from all over to attend, the UPD kept everything completely under control and this cop should be walking with pride for his police department.

Sorry Ralph, but on the 4TH of July Utica isn't unique with those who don't respect their neighborhoods or the law when it comes to fireworks. I live in Marcy and we also had plenty of people on Riverside Drive and the surrounding area shooting off fireworks till the wee hours in the morning and I didn't see one sheriff's patrol car drive in that vicinity. The noise stopped when those shooting off fireworks ran out of them. It is what it is, the 4TH of July, no matter where you live.

[Deleted]

The problem is a large city with a small police force. It is interesting to read how organizations are giving money to City Hall for police protection during an event. Like the Boilermaker and Saranak Thursdays. I was joking today with someone that it sounds like what happened during the Mafia Days when ya needed protection.

WHat gets me is that I always hear people saying that we have to many police officers in the city. We do really need more in Utica because Utica does have an inner city problem and the area of that inner city is growing.

I remember two years ago I was going for a walk during the 4th of July weekend and I turned the corner on Bleecker St to go up Mohawk St and some guy was setting off these huge fireworks right on the sidewalk across from me. The odd part was that a police car just happened to go buy me as I jumped but he didn't stop. I just thought he couldn't hear anything with his windows up.

I think we should arm ourselves with video camera and gun and just protect ourselves. I still wish I could get a small hand gun to carry with me when walking. It is dangerous out there.

[bobbbiez]

Alan, our force is very short handed now. Too many things happening all at once which is not unusual for summer time and not enough officers to go to all calls, especially on calls such as unruly crowd control, domestic disputes and these bath salt calls which takes many officers to handle. All very dangerous calls.

As the summer goes on you'll be seeing more from the sheriff and state police departments on our streets. Our officers are getting burnt out and fatigued and that in itself is dangerous for everyone, including the officers. Sad, but the people of Utica don't realize or have any conception exactly how bad the cuts the common council did has affected our police department. Slowly, they are getting the drift now when they called for a cop and he doesn't show up because the priority of calls have to be answered first.

[Ralph]

As much as I stand behind LEO’s, any other time I might agree with you Barb, but not this time.

There were not one or two officers dispatched, but a damn good size of the force on the street.
There were an estimated 100 people there at the scene.
They were not setting off fire crackers and bottle rockets, they were setting off a display which I was told was seconded only by the City’s itself. When I came up Kemble Street on my way home there were two people out there with snow shovels and one with a push broom cleaning up the mess.
There was a pile on the curb at least three feet high and six feet long consisting of fireworks boxes, and more against their house. The street was littered with debris and shrapnel from them.
On the little knoll across from my house there were almost a dozen boxes of spent Roman candles that they missed………not 6” little pissers, but boxes of 12” x 3” rockets packed 12 to a case. They set them off several cases at a time.
And I was told that while one idiot was strolling towards the knoll to light another box a PD officer was kind enough to move aside and get out of his way.

I know they had much to do, but at the particular time of this incident it was all that was happening right then.
To stand by and let it continue, to do NOTHING, and then saddle up and drive away was just plain inexcusable.

We are short handed…….but not that shorthanded.

The Boilermaker shows how “shorthanded” we are…………….not.

I will always stand behind our Police force, but they have now set a precedent which will affect the way they are looked at by such perpetrators for the rest of the summer.

And that will inevitably affect us all.

[bobbbiez]

Ralph am enjoying today with a Boilermaker party but will get back to you when I have the time. As far as law enforcement for the Boilermaker, all UPD personnel are either on duty, on over-time or on immediate call for the entire weekend. The city also has plenty of assistance from the Sheriff's department and the State Troopers. Plus, N.Hartford, Whitestown, Whitesboro and Yorkville are all chipping in when needed.They are assisting in most all events for the weekend for the city of Utica. For the kid's boilermaker races yesterday the Sheriff's department handled all of it. We are very short-handed in the UPD and as I told Alan, you will be seeing more from the Sheriff's department and Troopers on our streets most of the summer.

Sorry to disagree with you again but our Police Force were not the ones setting any precedent for the perpetrators. You can thank Utica's common council for that, my friend.

[JGRobinson]

The appearance of Random enforcement does infuriate folks. Most of us really wish to believe that the laws will always be enforced and get mad when we see those tasked with doing that turn the other way no matter what the reason is.

Last week I was following a cop in Oneida, he broke at least a couple traffic laws himself in less than a mile, one right in front of where they give the Drivers license tests (failed to completely stop before right on red)! He wasn't in pursuit, just doesn't sit well with those of us watching.

On the other hand, sometimes the right thing does happen, last Saturday I was heading up the Bearpath my normal 50 MPH and this guy in a big Dodge with a Hemi decided I wasnt moving fast enough so he passed me on the solid in a dangerous spot. Luckily, there was a cop sitting back off the road and I waved at him just as he turned his lights on and chased the idiot down! Perfect!!!

[bobbbiez]

Jul 9, 2012 5:16:48 GMT -5 JGRobinson said:

The appearance of Random enforcement does infuriate folks. Most of us really wish to believe that the laws will always be enforced and get mad when we see those tasked with doing that turn the other way no matter what the reason is.

Last week I was following a cop in Oneida, he broke at least a couple traffic laws himself in less than a mile, one right in front of where they give the Drivers license tests (failed to completely stop before right on red)! He wasn't in pursuit, just doesn't sit well with those of us watching.

On the other hand, sometimes the right thing does happen, last Saturday I was heading up the Bearpath my normal 50 MPH and this guy in a big Dodge with a Hemi decided I wasnt moving fast enough so he passed me on the solid in a dangerous spot. Luckily, there was a cop sitting back off the road and I waved at him just as he turned his lights on and chased the idiot down! Perfect!!!

JR, folks get infuriated concerning what they believe to be "random enforcement" because they have no idea what an officer can or can not do legally in each situation or what is the proper procedure they are taught to handle different situations, especially with large crowds and not to incite an already unruly crowd.
One example, you following this officer in Oneida and believing he was not in pursuit but you honestly do not know if he was on a "silent call" or any other type of call for that matter or if his call was canceled.

The same goes for Ralph concerning having to deal with people and shooting off fireworks on the 4TH of July. I completely explained why the police handled situations during the 4TH of July and yet people will always see the problem in their area as the only one the police had to deal with during that same time which is completely untrue and unfounded. Any other allegations should be reported to the Chief of Police in whatever area.

Being I volunteered for 4 days setting up and working the Boilermaker Expo, the Boilermaker Kid's races and the after-race party, I spent many hours with our Chief and many officers this last week because of the 4TH of July and the Boilermaker weekend which fell in the same week this year. If anyone wants to see exactly all the calls and the times of those calls the Chief will gladly and "proudly" show all the reports the UPD had to handle for the whole week and how well they kept MANY thousands of people throughout Utica for both events all week long without any major incidents or tragedies from happening.

Utica had over 14,000 from all over the world just running in the 14k race, and that's not counting the "thousands' who raced in the 5k race and the Kid's races on Saturday. No one really knows the count on just how many "thousands" who were in the Utica and surrounding areas just to watch the races. Most of these people were in Utica for the entire week and took part in both the 4TH of July and the Boilermaker. I would definitely say Utica's Chief of Police has every reason to be extremely proud of his men and women in Blue, as they are of their own actions.

Proudly having two boys who have been on the force for 23 & 22 years, one who worked years in a very dangerous position as an uncover drug investigator, as myself, they both were appalled to hear an officer stating he was ashamed to be just that. Both stated throughout their entire careers up to now have never felt ashamed to be who they are.....a police officer. Sure there were many details they worked and disliked but non ever make them lose pride in their positions or in themselves. They had suggestions for any officer who stated that but I will be beeped if I repeated all of what they stated. Clearing it, those officers should hang their heads in shame and never have chosen to be police officers and they can always leave for another job that fits their needs. No one will beg for them to stay.

See, what happens when I get the rest I need after working a very long week here in the city of Utica to help others enjoy the great events made available to them when they usually feel there is nothing to do in their city, but it was all worth it. Made me extremely proud of my area and our police department when I talked all week long to so many other out-of-towners who praised Utica, praised the UPD and praised the people of Utica for welcoming them and making it enjoyable and safe for all. Utica's only downfall are some people who lived here with their contant negativity and bad-mouthing everyone and everything attempted to make Utica a better place to live and enjoy. Utica may not be perfect, no area is, but sincere attempts are being made in that direction. Time for all to jump on the wagon and do their part to help instead of just running their mouths.
I enjoyed the fact hearing even this morning on the "Today Show," Utica, NY was mentioned fondly during their weather report.

Now, if anyone is still dissatisfied with the performance of any department call the appropriate head of that department and put your complaint where it belongs.

[Clipper]

One might take note that all those out of town visitors stay in North Utica or at the Radisson, and the Boilermaker is not routed through Corn Hill.

The officer that claimed to be ashamed was most likely venting his frustration at being told to "Stand down." It does have to be rather degrading to be on scene, ready to make the appropriate arrests, and to be told to get in your car and leave, leaving the scumbags to do what they do best, BREAK THE LAW.

How many times in future months will those officers be tested after being ordered to back down and leave like puppies with their tails between their legs? Whoever gave the order may have been correct in making such a tactical decision, but it does not make it any less frustrating and demoralizing to the officers that responded.

There will eventually be a situation that will require that the UPD call in whatever reinforcements are necessary, and make a stand against the unlawful, disrespectful nitwits, and it will be a large and violent confrontation. The police cannot allow those people to CONTROL the streets.

Our friend Ralph lives in a place where he has a nice home that is an island in the middle of that mess. He had better be prepared to hunker down and protect his home, himself and Betty when the feces hits the rotating oscillator. Sad sight to see. What used to be a vibrant and well kept neighborhood has become a ghetto that is not safe to walk around in.

Last trip to NY I used Culver Ave, the Arterial, and Champlin Ave to move North and South around the city. I DID drive up Genessee St just once to see the world famous round about. I guess it moves the traffic okay, but it is not all that well engineered and not all that impressive for the money that was spent to build it. I certainly would not want to try to navigate around it with a 53 foot semi trailer. Utica has a tendency to do everything on the cheap and it always ends up with a less than satisfactory result. Look at the Arterial as compared to most other city's expressways designed to move thru traffic efficiently. It's a joke.

[bobbbiez]

Jul 9, 2012 17:47:00 GMT -5 Clipper said:

One might take note that all those out of town visitors stay in North Utica or at the Radisson, and the Boilermaker is not routed through Corn Hill.

The officer that claimed to be ashamed was most likely venting his frustration at being told to "Stand down." It does have to be rather degrading to be on scene, ready to make the appropriate arrests, and to be told to get in your car and leave, leaving the scumbags to do what they do best, BREAK THE LAW.

How many times in future months will those officers be tested after being ordered to back down and leave like puppies with their tails between their legs? Whoever gave the order may have been correct in making such a tactical decision, but it does not make it any less frustrating and demoralizing to the officers that responded.

There will eventually be a situation that will require that the UPD call in whatever reinforcements are necessary, and make a stand against the unlawful, disrespectful nitwits, and it will be a large and violent confrontation. The police cannot allow those people to CONTROL the streets.

Ah but Clip, keep in mind one does not have to stay or live in Cornhill to feel the effects of crimes. Mainly because the criminals do not sh*t mainly in their own backyards to do their crimes, especially with burglaries and robberies. They go where the money and valuables are and that's not in Cornhill.

When it comes to the 4TH of July or the usual "nuisance" calls such as shooting off fireworks, loud parties, loud music or dogs barking continuously, the officer himself has to witness the person doing that violation. It is a violation payable by just a fine. No one gets arrested. "Heresay" by anyone, as in Ralph's case, isn't going to hold up what-so-ever. Has absolutely nothing to do with the officers "standing down." It is the law!!!!! The officer has to catch the person doing the actual act.
What a private individual can do is go to the police station and offer to sign an affidavit stating who they actually saw committing those violations and it will be taken to the court room which I and RJ have done on two separate situations on Andes Ave. As I told Ralph, "good luck" with many doing that. Most will bi*ch but will not take those extra steps to correct the problems in their areas. That's a fact!

Also, one can take note that the Radison and all other hotels, motels in Utica and the surrounding areas were packed with visitors from out of town. "No Vacancy" signs were on for miles and miles around.

[bobbbiez]

Very ironic and funny as we speak some idiot on Maynard Drive is shooting off fireworks right now. Guess they didn't get enough on the 4TH of July.

Hey, if anyone on the Corner has a scanner let me know if the Sheriff department or the Troopers (just down the road from us) gets a call for that.

[Ralph]

They didn't have to look far to find the ones doing it, they were doing it in front of them while they watched. It had nothing to do with what they could legally do or not do

So long as my family, home and property remain unscathed I could care less if they blew themselves all to hell in a handbasket...........that would have solved the problem quite nicely.

My point was they were there and could have effected some resolution, but, were told by their supervisors to basically "ignore it" and go away.