Arterial "improvements"

[Clipper]

www.uticaod.com/blogs/x2069922223/Arterial-project-will-have-interesting-elements

Another subject for discussion by Utica residents. Especially those living in West Utica.

What are the pros and cons of this project as seen by those that will be effected by it daily?

I see positive aspects to the project, such as opening Lincoln Ave back up all the way to Burrstone Rd. and improving access to West Utica from Oriskany St. I am not too sure about the actual benefit of the "surface parking" as it relates to Varick St events.

It will change the whole appearance of that part of the city. The Fay St warehouse I would presume will be demolished as well as the houses along Fay St. I have mixed emotions about that. I don't know if it still is done, but there used to be a gentleman that decorated his house and yard for Christmas. I don't know if he still decorates or if he is even still alive. On the other hand, it will do away with that short ramp with no merge lane when you get on going southbound from Oriskany St. That fact along with the bridge over Court St should eliminate a lot of accidents.

[Clipper]

Hmmm. I guess we don't have any members from W Utica since BZ moved, or else nobody gives a damn or has an opinion pertaining to what they do with the arterial and the West end one way or the other.

[clarencebunsen]

Sorry Clip, I'm afraid my response these days to anything coming out of Albany is to practice the old "duck & cover" technique I learned back in grade school. (Has anyone else noticed that the space under the desk has gotten a lot smaller since 1955?)

I'm impressed that Dan Minor got so much out of DOT, a map would be nice.

[Clipper]

That is partially why I was trying to evoke some discussion. A visual of ANY sort would have been a welcome addition. I am trying to visualize what they are proposing and it is difficult without someone describing it better than the vague description of the work we are seeing in this article, or someone providing a diagram or map.

I am trying to envision what the ramp configurations will be for Oriskany St East and West and how it will feed Varick St. Also would love to see where the bridge over Court street will end and return to street level.

As for Lincoln Avenue. It will be a great alternate route from Court to Burrstone, but will be certain to create a speedway and lots of traffic through that neighborhood, especially if they repave Lincoln Ave.

I have been trying to visualize what Lincoln Ave and Burrstone Rd looked like before the arterial and before they dead ended Lincoln Ave. Did Lincoln Ave used to go beyond Burrstone Rd?

[clarencebunsen]

As usual Strikeslip did a thoughtful review of the proposal. I should have pointed it out in my previous post. Sorry I can't help with the Lincoln Ave thing, but didn't Dave & BZ go through several posts worth of old street names and alignments in that area?

[firstamendment]

My dad tells me when they first proposed the Arterial decades ago, it was supposed to be elevated. Holy Trinity helped kill that idea because they felt it would interfere with the school. He was a student there. The arterial is one of those things that fall under ''should have been built right the first time'' list.

The proposal does call for eliminating the warehouse and many houses along the route on Fay Street. I believe I know the house you mean along the West side of the Arterial that used to be donned up nice for Christmas. I am not sure if they still do however.

[Clipper]

Strikeslip wrote on his blog about the Arterial project yesterday. Made some good points as usual. I was late checking out his site today. Thanks for the usual informed opinion Strike.

strikeslip.blogspot.com/

Strikeslips article says "This is more than a mere taking of houses and realignment. The razing of a couple of architecturally interesting structures a stone's throw from the Irish Cultural Center, the shifting of the alignment of the Arterial toward the Center, and then the replacing of the current bridge pylons with a retaining wall to hold up the Arterial will do exactly what for the aesthetics around the Center? Making the opening in the wall for Columbia St. an arch, and making the facing on the wall look like blocks from the old Chenango Canal is merely putting lipstick on the pig. It does not change the fact that a WALL is being erected across the neighborhood fabric, effectively limiting any positive impact of the Cultural Center for redevelopment to the east along Columbia St."

Pedestrian traffic in the area will be restricted and inconvenienced in navigating in the area of the new "wall" and ramps to be built. It also seems that it will stifle development in the area, rather than to promote it. One might envision commercial development spreading east along Columbia in the future, but this impediment will put a barrier in any vision of continuity or flow from Varick, east along Columbia OR Court Street. Seems like the project will effectively stomp out any chance of expanding the progress and success in the Varick St area along that corridor toward downtown.

Seems that the new bridge could be built on pylons, rather than erecting a berm and wall that will isolate the entire West Utica neighborhood from downtown. At least then pedestrians would have access and line of sight under the roadway from one side of the arterial to the other. It would not be QUITE as unsightly and not quite such a barrier to the perceived continuity provided by being able to see down the street to the east.

[Swimmy]

My father remembers that the arterial was supposed to be elevated, but differs on why it was not. He claims it was west uticans who feared an elevated arterial would cut people off from west utica and allow motorists to speed through without stopping to check out their businesses. Of course, I think that is the whole point of having such a road. But this current design is equally troublesome and should have been better researched!

[bobbbiez]

Old news. Last year the W.Utica Concerned Citizens showed in force they opposed this plan because it would take traffic away from businesses in that area. Many people in W.Utica walk and this plan would definitely be restricting to them.

As usual when the State proposes a plan not much can be done to stop them from pushing it through leaving those who live in that area stuck with it.

[Clipper]

Did they show the same plan that is described here BZ? Dan Miner seems to think some of this is "new news" in posting it on his OD blog.

www.uticaod.com/blogs/x2069922223/Arterial-project-will-have-interesting-elements

I just can't envision what it is going to look like when it is done. Where will the court street bridge end? Sunset Ave crossing on the arterial?

[bobbbiez]

Sounds pretty much the same as what the reps from the State said who attended the W.Utica meetings. Being totally honest I didn't pay much attention to the entire plan because within the first meeting I knew they were going to push it through no matter what the residents in that area wanted. I refused to bang my head up against a brick wall knowing damn well I was not going to be heard.

[strikeslip]

Hi everyone. The arterial plan will be an absolute disaster for W Utica. The Court St. interchange -- which is similar to the 840/Commercial Dr interchange in NH -- will create a no-man's land that few will want to cross. The Warren Street and Sunset Ave crossings will be totally eliminated. A pedestrian bridge will cross at sunset -- but pedestrian bridges are not particularly attractive to pedestrians.

I refuse to believe that this is a fait accompli until the shovels are in the ground. Utica city officials have either spoken in FAVOR of the plan publicly, or kept mum, except for Jim Zecca who wants a boulevard . . . But even Zecca leaves something to be desired. Where is a motion by him for a vote by the Common Council on this? Several councilors expressed concern over the plan when I talked to them. Their feet need to be put to the fire and they need to publicly take a stand on this.

If Utica as a City comes out against the plan, the state has to respond. I tried to get a Boulevard into the Master Plan because under SEQR the state has to account for community plans. Unfortunately, when the drafts kept going into the consultants, they kept coming out changed. Obviously someone with an inside track likes things just as the State plans.

If I had my druthers, the Arterial would become either a Boulevard or similar to an ordinary street. I would want to minimize any additional property takings. I would open up Lincoln Ave at Burrstone (as planned) but maintain its current connection with Court (which is to be eliminated) . That would create a parallel route to the Arterial. I would connect Champlin Ave to Oriskany Blvd at the western city line (as is now planned) to create a 2nd N-S route. Lastly, if necessary to remove further traffic from the Arterial, I would take about 10 properties to connect York Street to Oriskany Boulevard via Dewitt Street, and reconnect York to New Burrstone in an ordinary intersection with a light at the bridge. That would give a 3rd N-S route, slow the traffic down that comes off Burrstone onto York which is dangerous for those crossing York at Sophia Ave, and, with the improved access, perhaps lead to interest in redeveloping the State Hospital Campus to put jobs back into that neighborhood that needs them so badly.

[Clipper]

Interesting. I wonder if it is the mayor himself, or someone else influential that is in favor of the state plan? I would be in favor of the boulevard plan if I still lived there. Complicated interchanges and ramps eat up too much real estate and are unfriendly to pedestrians. That plan spells disaster for any sort of further development or expansion around the Irish Cultural Center or Lower Varick St.

It would be nice if ONCE the city stood up to the state or county and defended the city residents and taxpayers against such assaults. It is YOUR town, not the state planner's. Their plan should be formulated around the desires and future plans of the city. I am sure that a plan could be engineered AROUND the city's vision for the area.

Hmm. Maybe THAT is the problem. Maybe the city doesn't HAVE a concrete plan that they can agree on among themselves, that they can present to the state and push for. Maybe they have been too busy developing the master plan for Harbor Point and Oneida Square. Maybe East Utica and City Hall is simply throwing West Utica under the bus.

This might be a good place for Larry Jr to jump in, seeing as how he is running for Zecca's West Utica seat on the council. Good time for him to take a stand and stand up for his perspective constituency.

I am just posing possibilities. I am not in the area and really have not been privy to the past discussion, hearing process or planning.

[firstamendment]

The answers on how to fix this are much more complicated now that its been in place like this for decades. When this was first built was the time it should have been done correctly. Perhaps they couldn't have forseen the heavy traffic flow in the future, but good God, its a major state highway, 12/8/5 all conjoined. Having that running through the middle of a neighborhood was ill-conceived to begin with. It should have been either an elevated roadway or a subgrade one. Now, they'll have to uproot half the Westside and distrupt lots of traffic for this mess.

[Clipper]

I have always thought the arterial was an engineering joke and a waste of money. A true expressway would be more practical, and I have always said it should be a true "bypass" for those not wanting to pass through Utica, and should run from N. Utica west into Marcy, up over the hill between Whitesboro and Oriskany to meet with Judd Rd or the new 840, and back East to the South side of Utica to intersect with 12South, 8South and 5 West. Of course I always thought there should be a thruway interchange at the top of the hill in Whitesboro also, to serve the Southbound traffic, wanting to go south on 8 or 12. That idea I envisioned many years ago would feed into the new 840 and would work even better now than when I thought about it years ago when I drove a truck.

The arterial has always been a dangerous and poorly engineered highway for any thru truck traffic ever since it was built. Poorly timed lights and short stretches between them make it useless as an "express" route.