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Post by Disgusted-Daily on May 14, 2011 20:33:30 GMT -5
What's even more of a morale breaker is after the Police finally put these scumbags away the Courts and/or Parole let them back out.
Again, our laws need to be revised so the loop holds are removed for the modern day crimes.
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Post by bobbbiez on May 14, 2011 20:45:15 GMT -5
 Todd, you are so right. I could go on and on about scumbags that we, with information, helped the police arrest and the courts throw them back out on the streets even before we get home from court and testifying. It makes me sick to my stomach and I lose a lot of support from my good neighbors who I get to be good watchful citizens and also talk them into being a witness against these scumbags to put them away. How do you think we feel seeing the same scumbags walking past our homes giving us the evil eye and waking up in the morning with broken windows on our houses or on our vehicles? Damn the courts and these liberal judges! 
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Post by Disgusted-Daily on May 14, 2011 20:58:34 GMT -5
Buy a box of ammo every pay period I say.  |
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Post by bobbbiez on May 14, 2011 22:05:54 GMT -5
Buy a box of ammo every pay period I say. Nah, I'd probably put myself in more danger.  Being very honest, I don't know if I could ever kill another person, so I would hesitate and probably get killed myself. I always remember what my Dad taught me, "if you're going to pull a weapon on somebody, you better make sure you'll be able to use it." He knew something and make me realize it's not all that easy. Besides, I haven't been able to get with Corner yet to get my permit and that's not points for me if I did shoot someone. ;D |
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Post by firstamendment on May 14, 2011 22:46:31 GMT -5
Given the plea bargains that the DA's office has been handing out, its suprising anybody actually goes to prison anymore.
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Post by firstamendment on May 14, 2011 22:59:10 GMT -5
I'm not generalizing, I'm simply saying there are some who carry themselves with such a chip on their shoulder and have the piss poor attitude like Clipper points out. Sorry, that's not the kind of person, badge or not, that deserves respect. I realize they deal with the shit of society day in and day out, but does it give anyone the right to take it out on others? I think not. Like I said, I don't cop an attitude (no pun intended) until I get attitude thrown at me. I'm pretty even keel so I don't go looking for problems.
The entire professional courtesy thing is a joke all its own. My friend with the OC Sheriffs used to tell me about times he'd get pulled over on the thruway pushing along nearly 100. He'd show the shiny tin and be on his way. One time in whatever county Rochester is in, he got pinched by a County Sheriff there and upon showing his tin, the cop marveled at how much nicer Oneida County's badges are than his own! Really? Nevermind the guy you just pulled over was humming along between 90-100 MPH and could have killed somebody, lets be awestruck over the brass!
I was taught that the law was supposed to apply to everyone, so this whole concept of professional courtesy chaps my ass. I would hope law enforcement would lead by example rather than set a precident that they only have to follow the law when they feel like it. To be honest, if law enforcement doesn't bother following the law, why should anybody else? Something to think about.
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Post by bobbbiez on May 15, 2011 1:25:21 GMT -5
"The law applies to everyone?" Boy, that sounds really good but I never seen it to be a reality. It's who you know and as long as I can remember that's how it's been. Certain people, especially those who can afford it, get breaks every day in the courts and elsewhere. I would love to agree with you that it should be that way, but I am keeping it real. I've seen too many things in my life time in all professions that are just not right and are ignored. No one mention them. In all professions, laws and rules are broken all the time. I can honestly say even in the medical profession things are cover up to protect guilty parties. Once in awhile someone gets caught but not too often. Why? Because you can't get one doctor to testify against another and very few times someone's screw-up is reported by another employee. Talk about a silence code that is practice to the fullest. If you work for the state, that's another story. Laws are broken every day and no one dare say a word. None is right but it takes place, so I wouldn't be pointing the finger at just one profession. Now, that is something to think about. 
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Post by Disgusted-Daily on May 15, 2011 1:42:45 GMT -5
BZ- you would be surprised what you could and would do when your instincts kick in for one to survive.
There is a little phrase we use in the prison and it is probably the same phrase your two son's use at the P.D. and is known as;
"It is better to be judge by 12 than carried by 6."
I have also learned that I may not like or respect the person in the uniform but I always respect the uniform in it's self. I do understand all to well about attitudes and disrespect and although I will defend my guys in blue till the very end I will also be the first to admit that the Department is full of all different kinds of attitudes and personality's.
With that said I do not condone anyone bad behavior and it should never be tolerated. But rather than disrespect the uniform (which is not recommended because you will lose each and every time) it is recommended to be nice until it is time to not be nice and that time is when your filing a complaint with the Department in question. This will pull more weight and will be allot cheaper than to start a fight that can't be won.
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Post by Disgusted-Daily on May 15, 2011 1:48:11 GMT -5
It is unfortunate that a few bad apples can destroy the public image of that Department. Is it right, no, but that will never change and that is why every Department regardless of the field strives on public relations.
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Post by JGRobinson on May 15, 2011 5:15:34 GMT -5
BZ, Professional courtesies are acceptable only if they dont violate the law or the oath to Serve and Protect or require compromising the judgment of the responder. Special treatment because of who you are or know is ok for drycleaning or Coffee but not so much for criminal activities, Domestic Disputes and Felonious acts.
The first blame should go to the offender, everyone past that is a victim in one way or another. Some encourage the Perp to victimize more people because they fail to do their jobs, some Victims actually allow the Perp to continue via their failure to sign a complaint. Anyone that allows the perp to victimize them more than once is likely to allow it many times and excuse it every time.
How many cops have been called to a domestic dispute yet end up defending themselves against both the aggressor and the victim? Domestic abuse Victims often have more of a role in the attack than what we ever hear or wish to admit (I'm not victim bashing just stating the truth). Its not cut and dried to lock them up for violating, the Victims often deny the abuse even after calling 911themselves to report it!
The Courts, lockup and Police are not Marriage Counselors yet they are put in the position to be one when that not their job or their forte. If you sign an order of protection, its on you to follow your own request. If the police refuse to execute the order or prosecute violations, you must speak up and speak out, write the press, call a lawyer, go something, don't just wait for it to happen again.
Last but not least, its not that easy to throw offenders in jail unless they actually commit a crime other than being within X feet of the victim. Our jails are so full of nonviolent offenders, we don't have room for anyone who isn't actively being prosecuted. Look at the starZ that go to Jail, 90 days turn into 15 with good behavior, do it again and the next time they might get 20 out of 100 days!
Bullies can go through their entire public school years without being called out and punished for their abuse, later they become even more bold because they have never learned that this will not be tolerated ever. Empower society by teaching our kids from the start that violence, physical and mental abuse and bullies will not be protected, covered up or excused under any circumstances.
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Post by Swimmy on May 15, 2011 9:22:13 GMT -5
Joseph Longo you are referring to. That is a sad case that shows how desperately the system needs an overhaul in regards to safety. She reported to the UPD his behaviors before she even obtained a refrain order from what I recall. A refrain order is slightly different than an order of protection. Swimmy probably knows the differences. Unlike an order of protection, a person subject to a refrain order can still be anywhere near the other person but has to "refrain" from bothering them, something of that nature. I'm actually ignorant of what you're referring to. There are three versions of orders of protection. | 1. | No Harassment Protection Order | This is the least intrusive one. All the legal jargon short, the person this order is issued against will abide by the penal law and refrain from harassing, stalking, annoying, and a bunch of other minor crimes/violations of the person being protected | | 2. | Stay Away Protection Order | This is more intrusive and forces the abuser to vacate the house, if they're living with the victim. This order incorporates the "No Harassment" provisions and directs the abuser to stay away from the home of the protected person, the school the protected person attends, and the employment the protected does. | | 3. | No Contact Protection Order | The most intrusive of the three. In addition to the above two directions, this version also requires people to refrain from communicating with the protected person, even through third parties. |
I usually advise my clients to refrain from any contact even when just a "No Harassment" order of protection is issued against them. Often times, the victim is just as guilty of DV and is not above calling to push my client's buttons until she does not get what she wants and then will call the police to say she's being harassed by my client. New York State requires a mandatory arrest for an alleged violation, but the cops rarely do that. Here in Binghamton, a guy violated an order of protection 22 times (many times right in front of Binghamton's finest). Both the victim and the abuser were well known to law enforcement. Yet, he was never arrested or charged with violating those Orders of Protection until the victim died. Then they not only charged the guy with murder, but 22 counts of contempt second. A little late to be charing him with contempt, boys. |
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Post by firstamendment on May 15, 2011 9:35:31 GMT -5
According to the OD reporting of the story, there was a "refrain from" order. Since they still lived together at the time, he was allowed to frequent the house. www.uticaod.com/news/x980513347/Rage-built-to-murder-suicideJoseph Longo was served with divorce papers on Friday, Sept. 25, three days before the murder-suicide. At that time, Acting Supreme Court Justice James Griffith issued a “refrain from” order prohibiting Joseph Longo from assaulting, harassing, menacing or committing any other crimes against his wife and her family. Interestingly, I thought everyone was prohibited from assaulting, harassing, menacing or committing other crimes against their families? |
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Post by Swimmy on May 15, 2011 9:37:31 GMT -5
Clipper, I am going to totally disagree with Swimmy on this issue and repeat that it is the courts slacking on these cases. And you're free to do so. But I'm on the front lines in the courts, and it's not the courts just slacking. It is many times the cops refusing to follow the law and make the mandatory arrests! As long as I'm on a roll I must state I take grave offense to anyone who generalizes and states that cops do not want to do their jobs or aren't doing their jobs properly. There are bad and good in all professions. That's a fact and the few bad should never tarnish all the good. |
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Post by Swimmy on May 15, 2011 9:41:13 GMT -5
I can honestly say even in the medical profession things are cover up to protect guilty parties. Once in awhile someone gets caught but not too often. Why? Because you can't get one doctor to testify against another and very few times someone's screw-up is reported by another employee. Talk about a silence code that is practice to the fullest. If you work for the state, that's another story. Laws are broken every day and no one dare say a word. None is right but it takes place, so I wouldn't be pointing the finger at just one profession. Now, that is something to think about. Good point. And in any subsequent medical malpractice case, there is a legal doctrine that where negligence occurred and everyone is hush about it, then they are all negligent unless they come forward. The problem with the civil courts today, though is that often juries "No cause" the verdicts. In other words, they find the doctors negligent, but that their negligence did not cause the plaintiff's injuries that are complained of. It is been a long time, in upstate new york since a plaintiff has received a jury verdict. A lot of times, the jurors justify it with, I'm never going to see that kind of money in my lifetime, why should this person just because the doctor screwed up. |
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Post by Swimmy on May 15, 2011 9:44:49 GMT -5
How many cops have been called to a domestic dispute yet end up defending themselves against both the aggressor and the victim? Domestic abuse Victims often have more of a role in the attack than what we ever hear or wish to admit (I'm not victim bashing just stating the truth). Its not cut and dried to lock them up for violating, the Victims often deny the abuse even after calling 911themselves to report it! This is why the state legislature amended the law to make it mandatory to arrest any alleged violations, regardless of the victim recanting after the fact. |
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Todd, you are so right. I could go on and on about scumbags that we, with information, helped the police arrest and the courts throw them back out on the streets even before we get home from court and testifying. It makes me sick to my stomach and I lose a lot of support from my good neighbors who I get to be good watchful citizens and also talk them into being a witness against these scumbags to put them away. How do you think we feel seeing the same scumbags walking past our homes giving us the evil eye and waking up in the morning with broken windows on our houses or on our vehicles? Damn the courts and these liberal judges! 
