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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 16:20:41 GMT -5
no i know the difference ssd is part of ss ssi is a program that should have never been as i have seen people being taken care of by the state in state facilities get it only to be used by staff to by expensive furniture that many of those clients will never sit in tv's that they are icapable of watching or taking somebody with a tested iq of below 20 to a show at the casino and they have nor will they ever have any idea what they are doing there who they are seeing because staff at these facilities get to decide how ssi money is spent... in my law enforcement carreer i have seen criminals who are capable of breaking into carsor homes but get ssi for some perceived deficit another wasteful program put into place by lyndon johnson OK, then I think we're losing something in the translation. I thought you said that people on SSD should go to work as long as they are able to operate a computer or talk on the phone? SSD is not easy to get, & only those who paid into it (much like retirement) are eligible. SSI is needs-based, for those who did not work enough & pay into SS to be eligible. It basically is a welfare program, which is why the household's income is taken into account. SSI is what all the old refugies are getting. Never worked a day of their life in America and they get free money--I hear them say 'come to America get free money and cheap place to live. Some of them don't even pay $90.00/month rent and their furniture is all brand new and very very nice. I think corner does not want the trully disabled to be able to live--ergo" if ya can use a computer or talk on a phone you can be working"
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Post by stoney on Feb 23, 2011 16:25:05 GMT -5
"I think corner does not want the trully disabled to be able to live--ergo" if ya can use a computer or talk on a phone you can be working"
Knowing Corner, I don't think that's what he meant. That's why I asked him about it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 16:30:57 GMT -5
Let me get this straight Alan. You are a year older than I am. You probably draw SS. Now I worked and paid into SS for many many years, starting at age 16. I also worked for the US Air Force for 25 years, and paid into my pension fund. When I first went to work for the AF I worked as a crash firefighter. I worked a 72 hour work week (three 24 hour shifts) and risked my ass. I did that for 12 years and then worked for the communications command for the remainder of my 25 years. I paid into a federal pension fund. I am not supposed to be able to have a retirement plan where I worked? I am sorry. That is just plain whacky. Our house is paid for and we pay our taxes. YOU don't. I don't know what the heck you are thinking, but renters are the ones that aren't paying taxes. Property owners pay for the renter's kids to go to school, and probably pay for many of them to eat, and for their rent through welfare and other entitlements. Your are damned right we think differently. Maybe if we didn't make it so easy for the "entitled" to remain "entitled" some of them would get off their lazy asses and go to work. Go to work, pay social security, and maybe if they work hard, put into a pension fund so they can have a little extra when they reach retirement age. Then they won't HAVE to sell their house and rent an apartment. Does that make any sense to anyone but me?? I get SSD. I also started working at age 16. In a greenhouse and a furneral home. You are right I don't pay any taxes and thank ya Jesus for that. I am just so Blessed.It should be one way or the other collect your pension OR collect Social Security. That's it. Would level out the playing field.So you hate people who are getting entitlements. Wow. It is not their fault. It is the Nurture vs. Nature thing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 16:35:53 GMT -5
But Clipper you also prove my oint. You moved South in order to excape from paying your share of taxes that you actually brought on yourself by owning property. That is why people who have houses etc. actually get screwed by the government they love. I still can't see why people are allowed to collect both Social Security and a Pension. Makes no sence to me. It is like the government allow a person tto work under the table.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 23, 2011 16:38:33 GMT -5
Spanish rice without meat is like spaghetti and meatballs without meatballs. All carbs and little protein. Great side dish but not a balanced meal. Dial up is okay if that is what one wants or what one can afford. Economics dictate many things in life, but nutrition should rank high on the list of priorities. Eating cheap can result in health issues that would cost more than the groceries to eat a balanced diet. Chicken is a very low priced alternative to beef or pork, and lower priced, tougher cuts of beef and pork can be used in recipes that allow them to be tender and tasty when they arrive at the table. Walmart has bags of chicken legs and thighs here in Bristol for about 4 bucks. We buy them, cut the thighs and drumsticks apart, and have many meals of chicken and dumplings, baked chicken, soup, chicken salad, and stir fry. I buy lower quality, tougher pork butts from save a lot when they are on sale. I bone them out, make mushroom stew and grind some of it for homemade Italian and breakfast sausage as well as to add to ground beef for meat balls and meat loaf. Many times in my childhood we were relegated to eating "cheap" but it didn't keep my parents from providing a balanced diet. It taught me lessons that allowed me to eat well after a divorce that left me "temporarily desitute" back in the late 70's. As far as the guy with limited circumstances and a cable connection, I guess that would be a matter of personal choice, but if I am paying for it in entitlements, there should be a little checking up by the social worker to see if there is too much of MY money going into the household and maybe not enough of it being spent on food for kids. If it is a single person or a person not unnecessarily sucking on the teat of society, then he can spend his money any way he desires. PS: I just went back and read my earlier post. I don't see where I said I hated people who receive entitlements. I simply said that we, the taxpayers, are responsible for paying their way, so why are we not entitled to our pensions and to own our homes? I have to clarify the fact that I DID NOT move here to avoid taxes. I move here to care for my elderly parents, who have since passed on. I am now simply faced with the decision as to move back or not. I think it would be silly at this point to move into and area that would gobble up dollars that could be spent more wisely and more beneficial to our well being and happiness. I feel badly for you and for your being forced into drawing assistance. If you are legitimately disabled and unable to work, I have no objection whatsoever and no disdain for your entitlements. I do however resent paying for the lazy and the able bodied, or those that misuse the funds and benefits provided. I have an aquantance here in Tennessee who lives on chicken hot dogs, fried eggs, and lots of macaroni, but he manages to stay drunk most of the time, while whiskey is over thirty bucks a half gallon bottle, and he can bowl two nights a week while munching on slices of pizza from the snack bar and drinking beer at $2.75 a plastic cup full. How disabled is a person that can bowl three games a night, two nights a week? Probably physically impaired, but damn sure not 100% disabled. You are an adult and free to eat what you choose, but I hope that you try to eat green vegetables and maintain a balance in your diet. At our age, diet has an enormous effect on our well being. While we may have differences of opinion and while I may seem to snipe at you, I actually sympathize with your situation and don't begrudge you anything you have or can acquire benefit wise as long as you are legitimately entitled. I have a sneaking suspicion that some of your posts are designed to solicit a certain reply, and to fuel discussion, as are many of my own. Be assured that I have no animosity for you as a person, and no disrespect is meant in our differences of opinion.
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Post by chris on Feb 23, 2011 18:17:12 GMT -5
Didn't they try that with Food STamps only to have the people buy beer and cigarettes with them or sell them for cash. You can try and do the right thing but there is always someone who will get around it. That is the nature of things.
I'd rather cry and say my glass is half full than half empty. Be thankful for what you got and don't begrudge others. You have to live your own life.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 23, 2011 19:40:53 GMT -5
Things were easier when the government provided surplus food. I used to buy hamburger and chicken and give it to the neighbor in exchange for the government cheese that her family didn't care for. It was no different than Velveeta and made excellent grilled cheese sandwiches. There was less abuse, and although I am sure some found a market for their food, it was probably less frequent than selling food stamps for cash to buy beer.
They also used to give those people whole chickens in a can. I oft wondered how the hell they crammed a whole chicken into a tall tin can, LOL.
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Post by chris on Feb 23, 2011 19:55:48 GMT -5
contortionist chicken ;D
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 23, 2011 21:11:28 GMT -5
I sympathize with your plight Dave. We are in kind of the same position, other than the fact that we left NY in 2002 to care for my folks. Those that know me from the beginning of the forum, remember when I used to have "Can't wait to come home" at the bottom of my posts. I don't have that there any more. I love NY and miss it very much, but the idea of "coming home" has become an economic decision that is almost incomprehensible. We pay less than $500 a year TOTAL taxes here. We support county and state government through sales tax, and that is only 9.25%. I imagine it is almost that, or more in NY and NY has all the other high taxes to deal with. We pay $14 per vehicle to renew our license plates and I pay $58 every five years to renew a class A CDL, which cost me $90 every 5 years in NY. Gas, cigarettes, food, consumer goods and almost anything we pay for is cheaper here in Tennessee. Our utility bill is $144 bucks a month on the budget and it include our heat and AC. If I were in NY I would be having to decide whether the positive points were worth staying there for, or if I should move to a lower priced area and just visit as we do now. I truly miss the Adirondacks, the fishing, the hunting, the food, and the friends, but I am in a quandary as to whether we want to spend the money to live there, or possibly stay here and put our fifth wheel on a seasonal site and just spend summers up there. Our hearts yearn for the fresh air and lakes we used to enjoy there. Just a footnote. IF you move to the Carolina's, I am sure you will be a welcome addition to any area you move to my friend. Then you will be like Kathy and I and will look forward to NY state and your visits with your kids and friends. NY never fades from our minds and we will always be New Yorkers at heart. I've gotten to the point where I just don't care about living in NY State anymore. I'm surprised by my feelings, but there they are. This state is just so screwed up I'm appalled. I remember thinking years ago "it can't get much worse," but it did. And it will continue to do so, but without me. A government of criminals in Albany practically stealing from taxpayer, bloated agencies, towns across the state with people breaking their backs to pay the salaries of their neighbors, public workers. Businesses leaving because of taxes, regulations, etc. New York is is being sucked down the drain by a mob of idiots and I'm not sure if that group is the politicians or the voters who keep saying, "Hit me again." Wow, I'm glad I got that out of my system! On the other side of the equation, I like it down here. People are nice and that matters a lot. Taxes are merely annoying and my property taxes after the first year will be less than a tenth of what I'm paying in New York. And the figures you mention for utilities are the similar and I think less here. By the way, I just renewed my Class A CDL in New York and it is now up to $165.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 23, 2011 21:15:48 GMT -5
Alan wrote: " You (Clipper) moved South in order to excape from paying your share of taxes that you actually brought on yourself by owning property."
Somewhere on that wild ride of logic, Alan, I missed a turn. Can you tell me how owning property brought on higher taxes, if that's what you're saying? Thanks.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 23, 2011 21:22:15 GMT -5
And then there's the guy in limited circumstances paying all that money each month for a cable connection. I use dial up. Very cheap. Also the library Good for you, Alan. Dial up is underrated. I ran a website for 2 years on dialup. Just had to get on at the right time (re other family members) and stay light on the graphics. I used more line art than color photos to save upload times. Even then, a little patience goes a long way. By the way, I apologize for the dig. Just couldn't resist it.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 23, 2011 22:20:00 GMT -5
You really confuse me Alan. What would NY State do, with a system where a significant portion of revenues collected in order to provide vital services comes from taxation of properties, base on assessed value? Those of you that rent and do not pay taxes, no offense intended would darn sure have a major bitch when the costs of running the exorbitant and ridiculously expensive form of government fell to sales tax and state income tax revenues alone. Here if you live in a city, you pay a city and county property tax, both of which by the way are along the lines of our taxes I stated earlier. We live out in the county, where we pay less than $500 a year. If we lived in the city, we could expect to pay twice that amount. About $500 each to city and county. That money pays for our services provided by those individual government entities. Our state government operates on a budget funded by sales tax and fees for state services such as DMV functions and licenses for occupational purposes as well as hunting and fishing etc. Those state services are equal and comparable in quality to NY states services, at less than half what they are in NY state and we don't pay a state income tax.
As far as I can see, the only alternative to owning property and paying taxes on it, is to rent, pay no taxes other than sales tax and bottle deposits, and become a state entirely populated by tenants. SOMEBODY would have to own the dwellings that those people would be renting. Who do you propose that would be? The state? Hmmm. How would we fund that without property taxes? Quite perplexing is it not?
If you have this all thought out and have a plan to finance NY State without property tax, please fill me in. Income tax would be the only answer and the whole state would probably bail out and move South if they placed all the burden for running your corrupt and overly expensive state government on income tax revenue. It seems county government would have to either be eliminated or financed by the state. Give that a little thought and imagine what Oneida County would get when the state was cutting the pie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 9:19:08 GMT -5
My meals are always balanced. Havine meatballs or sausage with pasta is not always necessary. All that red meat is very harmful for the heart. I always limit myself to red meat. And I have one or two glasses of a very good red wine with my meals. I don't think it necessary to lecture me on my eating habits and if I can afford " better" foods. Buy if that floats your boat then fine. I would supose that many in New York feel an obligation to pay higher taxes to support the lesser folk and we need to remain gratfull for their charity.
DO you really need a Class A CDL. If so then the price for it should not matter. It is like everything else if you really want something you pay for it.
Now how else can I screw with peoples minds!
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Post by Clipper on Feb 24, 2011 10:56:01 GMT -5
Alan, I really don't give a darn what you eat. I was just pointing out that a diet that is too heavy in carbs is certainly not healthy and lack of protein is also a concern, but it is YOUR concern, not mine. Just making an observation. Chicken, fish and pork will round out a meal as well and are not red meat. Has nothing to do with what I can afford or what I eat or don't eat. It was an opinion. I suppose it "fills the hole" when one doesn't care to cook an entire balanced meal. Nothing to do with economic status or station in life. I myself would worry more about drinking too much of that wine too often, than about eating a good lean piece of beef, but then again, it's your liver. Heck, when I think about it, I actually don't care if you spend ALL your money on wine and don't eat at all. I guess you have gotten the impression that I am wealthy or something, but believe me MOST retired folks are frugal with their grocery budget. We don't eat prime rib and lobster. Lots of chicken, pork and fish in this house and an occasional beef roast or meat loaf. Tons of broccoli, brussel sprouts and green beans and carrots. Usually bought on sale for about a buck a bag or box. Salad is not an extravagance and is very nutritious. A package of frozen broccolli, quickly blanched in boiling water, spiral pasta, onion, a little diced tomato, italian seasoning, parmesan cheese, and good vinegar and oil make a salad that is healthy, keeps for days, and stretches the grocery dollar. Just economical suggestions. Not criticism. A class A CDL is a hard license to acquire and I hold on to mine, even in retirement, just in case I want to take a few trips part time for a local company. I have yet to arrive at a point where I desire any employment whatsoever, but should the desire arise, I want to be qualified to "take work away from one of those young people" that you spoke of. Having held that license for over 40 years at this point, I see no reason to give it up now. I have to tell ya, I would not have to take much work away from anyone, as one or two trips a month at the rate a tractor trailer driver is paid, would give me all the extra play money I would want. THAT is why I retain the license. I also have a passenger endorsement on my commercial license should I decide to once again drive a charter bus, school bus, or limo. It's an investment that can and would pay dividends should I ever have a need or a desire to go back to work.
While we are of very different opinions Alan, we are both similar in age, and both quite opinionated. I guess that is what makes the world go round and keeps a discussion lively. Why do I have a feeling that some of YOUR posts are also posted for effect, with a specific reply solicited? Is it possible that you like a "spirited debate?" Naahh, you would never do such a thing.
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Post by stoney on Feb 24, 2011 11:20:28 GMT -5
I beg to differ on one point, Clipmeister: People who rent certainly DO pay taxes indirectly through their rent.
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