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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 27, 2010 12:41:24 GMT -5
 I'm not bringing up this subject to discuss the issue of smoking. There are plenty of people who don't smoke but also plenty of people who do smoke which is their choice, their right, and I will remind everyone smoking is not illegal.  Over the weekend a conversation came up about our Governor placing a ban on the Indians mail-order cigarettes. My niece who is a mail-person here in Utica and my girlfriend who is a post master in a rural area locally brought out some very interesting facts about the Governor's decision. These women working for the post office both said that the PO is looking for ways to save money by cutting services to the customer when in fact the mail order cigarettes are the majority of their package deliveries. The delivery is only a convenience to the Indian's customers but a hugh revenue to the PO. Not to mention the fact, that the mail order customers after June 30 only has to drive to the nearest Indian's Save On Stations (which there are plenty of) or the nearest casino to receive the same deals. I'm positive in doing this the mail order customer having to be there anyways to buy their cigarettes will now buy their gas there (which is cheaper) also, where they use to buy their gas from their local gas stations.  Nothing is being saved by our Governor signing this ban. If anything he is giving the Save Ons more customers now for buying cigarettes and gas. In doing this I feel the State has cut off their own nose to spite their face.  I have to take it one step further. I like many others do a lot of catalog shopping. I absolutely hate shopping in store and I do find many items in the catalogs that our area stores do not carry. Many of these catalogs sell their items much cheaper then our local stores and as a convenience to their customers there is no shipping charge and many companies are located out of state so there is no taxes to pay. Now, am I missing something? Explain to me what the difference is between ordering items from a catalog with no tax to mail ordered cigarettes and why stab the PO in it's back. Just doesn't make any sense to me at all. 
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 27, 2010 13:27:29 GMT -5
1. Two years ago, the sate passed a bill that pataki signed into law requiring all Internet companies that do a majority of business within NYS via Internet sales to collect a sales tax. I think Amazon and Walmart are currently litigating the constitutionality of this legislation.
2. On the state income taxes, there is a line where you are supposed to calculate the taxes you owe on any out-of-state and online purchases you made throughout the year and to pay that tax.
Whether any of this applies to catalog shopping, I do not know. And I don't have an explanation for why the state is behaving the way it is. But the sooner the state stops ignoring the Oneidas' and the other Congressionally recognized Indian tribes' status as sovereigns, and stop ignoring valid treaties still enforced today, the state is always going to be doing stupid things.
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Post by chris on Apr 27, 2010 19:27:20 GMT -5
The Post office is a federal business not run by state. NYS taxes aren't going to save Federal government.
On another note anything that can help hinder the sale of smoking I am all for. With everything being done to help people stop smoking for their health and for everyone around them, why encourage it. MHO. (maybe this is Indians revenge against white man) Please tell me little Giuliana is "safe" from smoke.
Swimmy is correct in the law about taxes on Internet and mail order. If you aren't getting charged you will be or they are not following the law. I am charged nys taxes on everything I buy.
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 27, 2010 22:15:12 GMT -5
Chris, I know the PO is federal but by the state stopping all these mail orders it sure is screwing the other and we will be losing more services by the PO. Either way, one does affect the other and we the taxpayer are paying for both. Banning the mail orders is not going to stop people from driving to a Save On to buy their cigarettes and probably now their gas. As I stated the mail order was just a convenience for the customer. With this ban, don't kid yourself, cause these same people are not going to stop smoking. It their choice to smoke or not to no matter what someone else feels. No different there obesity. If someone wants to eat themselves to death can we put an end to it? I think not. It's a choice people make and it's not up to us to force them to stop. Chris, I just order items from two different catalogs and there is no tax required for NYS on the order sheet. Have ordered through these companies many times and have never paid tax on my purchases. I'm not going to add it in if they're not asking for it.  ps: Rest your mind girlfriend. With any of my grandchildren, all eight of them the oldest being 24 yrs old, no one smokes when in their presence. Many smokers are very considerate among non-smokers and many didn't need laws to have that common sense.
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Post by Ralph on Apr 27, 2010 22:52:44 GMT -5
I wasn’t aware the OIN sold cigarettes via mail order….I know that there are many other places on-line to purchase cigarettes though. I can’t see why or how he can interfere in it at all, seems to me that would bear on Postal regulations, not what hiz highness happens to want this week. New York is getting “unfriendly” to pretty much everything and everybody these days. Wouldn’t surprise me if the damn Indians wanted to move pretty soon themselves. |
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Post by chris on Apr 28, 2010 17:53:11 GMT -5
yeah today I heard NYS wants to take organs from you when you die. I thought it was a donation and only "if" you wished to. Now they are trying to pull this crap. What next? I actually was thinking of becoming a donor but now ...no way.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 28, 2010 18:02:35 GMT -5
Hell, if they take my organs they wouldn't be getting any bargain. I have about used them up. I think I am running on reserve power as we speak, haha. I know that my liver would not be any bargain after all the years that I abused it. Now if they find a way to harvest fat and turn it to fuel, I may have a serious impact on the oil shortage when I croak, haha.
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 28, 2010 19:11:20 GMT -5
Hell Clipper, I am a "body donor," but from the looks of things by time they get to this body, it'll give no use to anyone and be rejected anyways ;D
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 28, 2010 19:23:38 GMT -5
Ralph, as far as I know the OIN does not have a mail order for their cigarettes, but there are many others that do. One of which I do know for sure is the Seneca's and the ones near Syracuse. Like I said, those who did take advantage of the convenience of mail-order will now just drive to the nearest SaveOns or the casino for their cigarettes and probably the gas now also. In this ban the only ones getting hurt is the Post Office and now the gas companies. Yep, plastic surgery gonna be needed to repair this nose job. ;D
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Post by Clipper on Apr 28, 2010 20:19:40 GMT -5
Heck Sunshine, once I am dead, I really don't give a damn if they use me for gator bait, haha.
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Post by Ralph on Apr 29, 2010 0:32:49 GMT -5
Best gator bait is live meat though. ;D
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Post by clarencebunsen on Apr 29, 2010 6:58:45 GMT -5
One problem I have with postal & internet sales of tobacco is that the laws concerning sales to minors are honored with a wink and a nudge. Why do we want to want to help or even tolerate people who willingly supply deadly and addictive drugs to children? Yes kids can get cigarettes in other places but both my life experiences and everything I've read say that people are more likely to smoke and smoke more if cigarettes are cheap and conviently available.
If some post offices have to lay off some people, how many civil service jobs are you willing to trade for the life of a young mother dead from lung cancer?
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Post by Clipper on Apr 29, 2010 9:54:26 GMT -5
Times being what they are, the Post Office is simply going through the pains of having to downsize their cost of operations, and most likely will downsize service AND the number of employees.
Internet banking, bill paying, and shopping have cut down on the volume of mail. UPS, Fedex and others have cut into the profits of the Postal Service and offered competition that has been beneficial to the consumer. Before the new "one price boxes" I used to pay exorbitant fees to mail a small care package to someone at the holidays, but now I can send whatever I can cram in a box for only $8 at last check.
If we want government to shrink, we will see such entities as the Postal Service effected also, even though they have been surgically removed from the federal budget and made a separate entity.
I lost my job at Griffiss AFB when the size of our post cold war military was cut and some base locations were strategically no longer necessary. Downsizing hurts those that lose jobs, but it is a necessary evil, and if the post office loses jobs due to loss of mail order, those jobs will be a few less jobs that we the consumer are paying for in the price of stamps and postage. I also don't see any problem with cutting Saturday delivery. There may be isolated problems, but from my view, I don't pay my bills on a Saturday or Sunday, so if my bills don't get delivered until Monday, I have no problem with it. It is my understanding that the Saturday cuts would not effect next day or special delivery service.
I would also question the statement that "cigarette sales are the majority of their package deliveries." I am sure that they comprise a significant number of deliveries on a daily basis, I doubt that they are THE majority of the packages delivered. When Kathy and I used to order from the western NY Indians back in the late 90's, our cigarettes were delivered by UPS.
The governor is doing what governors across the nation are doing. He is trying to scratch anywhere he can to produce revenue rather than to have to make a decision to cut anything. Governors for the most part are not going to make serious cuts if it will hurt them politically. They will raise taxes and put the bite on the taxpayer, rather than to alienate any major corporate supporters or corporate contributors to their campain.
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 29, 2010 10:54:23 GMT -5
One problem I have with postal & internet sales of tobacco is that the laws concerning sales to minors are honored with a wink and a nudge. Why do we want to want to help or even tolerate people who willingly supply deadly and addictive drugs to children? Yes kids can get cigarettes in other places but both my life experiences and everything I've read say that people are more likely to smoke and smoke more if cigarettes are cheap and conviently available. If some post offices have to lay off some people, how many civil service jobs are you willing to trade for the life of a young mother dead from lung cancer? CB, today it is just as hard for a minor to order by mail as it is for them to buy in any store. The mail orders I know of one has to send prove of age and has to have a checking account before they are given an account to have deliveries. Can't put the blame on the Indian's mail order for minors smoking. If anything, it's easier for the kids today to get a bag of pot then it is for them to get a pack of cigarettes. Drug dealers have no age guide-lines, rules or regulations for their customers to follow. If one wants to smoke, price or location, isn't going to stop them from smoking more. I think Canada has proven that since the price of their cigarettes have been "much" higher then the US for many years now and the people I personally know living there still smoke as always. |
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 29, 2010 10:58:50 GMT -5
Clipper, at one time UPS use to deliver the mail-order cigarettes but it is cheaper through the PO and that's why the change was made.
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I'm not bringing up this subject to discuss the issue of smoking. There are plenty of people who don't smoke but also plenty of people who do smoke which is their choice, their right, and I will remind everyone smoking is not illegal. 
