Sheriff pulls out of drug task force

[bobbbiez]

Geez Dave, why do you see second and third time offenders and the same names in the newspapers getting arrested that leaves you wondering how they got out of jail or prison so soon?

Don't know about your area but it sure as hell happens far too often here. I think I can safely say most of the crimes on our streets are drug-related and it's done by the same people until they do a crime that can't be ignored by our court system like murdering someone, so that tells me something is terribly wrong with that picture. Look at all the violent crimes happening all around us and ask yourself why. Keep tying up the hands of the law and that's what society will continue to get. The proof is in the pudding every single day as the news is reported. Don't know what more to tell you.

[dgriffin]

"Geez Dave, why do you see second and third time offenders and the same names in the newspapers getting arrested that leaves you wondering how they got out of jail or prison so soon?"

I do see that, although I can't remember how often. Evidently you have seen a lot of it. I'm just trying to understand the root of the problem. So, the judges aren't giving long enough sentences? Or parole boards are letting the perps back out too soon? From what you said, it sounds like offenders are getting arrested (or if not, it isn't because of their lawyers) and they're getting sentenced (so the court system is doing its job.) But the judges aren't handing out long enough terms? Or 3 strikes doesn't work? The problem must be the judges?

I'm trying to find out why you feel that the criminals appear to have more rights than us. Or that law enforcement or the court system isn't doing all it can. I don't have any data on how many perps are right back out on the street and breaking the law again, but I know it happens, no doubt often. So who in the system is not doing the job? And how are the hands of the police being tied?

Maybe Corner would enlighten us.

Corner, who is screwing up?

[Ralph]

I don't think Corner misses much Bobbbiez.

It's much more work though to stop and find reasonable cause and prove the transaction.......after chasing the perps for several blocks (every try running with all that gear on?)......and then to see them walk out the door while you are still filling out all the paperwork.

Task forces are great things, great money gatherers and spenders too. When they aren't playing "rock-paper-scissors" to decide who will take the main credit for the latest bust. ;D

[bobbbiez]

Mar 29, 2010 2:00:38 GMT -5 Ralph said:

I don't think Corner misses much Bobbbiez.

It's much more work though to stop and find reasonable cause and prove the transaction.......after chasing the perps for several blocks (every try running with all that gear on?)......and then to see them walk out the door while you are still filling out all the paperwork.

Task forces are great things, great money gatherers and spenders too. When they aren't playing "rock-paper-scissors" to decide who will take the main credit for the latest bust. ;D

Corner, as myself, are not on the streets 24/7 and can only comment on what we see and I'm sure neither of us sees all. Sorry, but common sense alone tells me that.

The task force is no different then any other departments consolidating. Everyone wants to run things and be the boss. I'm sure that is why most cities and towns are against consolidating services, and the reason why the Sheriff dpartment is pulling out of the task force.

As far as the county task force they have been very effective in our area especially when all departments mentioned does not have enough man power to fight the drug situation on their own. With the task force we have one division who can concentrate solely on drug activity on our streets. There is no other way.

[bobbbiez]

[quote author=ralph board

It's much more work though to stop and find reasonable cause and prove the transaction.......after chasing the perps for several blocks (every try running with all that gear on?)......and then to see them walk out the door while you are still filling out all the paperwork.


Dave, I think Ralph pretty much answered your question and I'm sure we all know our court system is the reason these repeated offenders have a revolving door to use. Many, including myself, have stated that before the officers gets his paper work completed the offender is walking out the door.

[bobbbiez]

[quote author=dgriffin board


I'm trying to find out why you feel that the criminals appear to have more rights than us. Or that law enforcement or the court system isn't doing all it can. I don't have any data on how many perps are right back out on the street and breaking the law again, but I know it happens, no doubt often. So who in the system is not doing the job? And how are the hands of the police being tied?

You tell me Dave. All I know is that my grandmother, my mom and for half of my life we could walk the streets day or night without any fear, but not so now.
Our children were safe to play in front of their homes, but not so now.
We could sit on our porches and go anywhere without hearing the "F" word, but not so now.
We could leave our doors to our homes and our cars open, but not so now.
We could discipline our children when needed, but not so now.
We could drive down the streets and not have to worry about hitting people walking in the streets, but not so now.
We had peace and quiet in our neighborhoods, but not so now.
We had clean streets, but not so now.

You tell me Dave why all these things and many more goodness in our lives we once had have changed so drastically.

[dgriffin]

"You tell me Dave why all these things and many more goodness in our lives we once had have changed so drastically."

Now you're picking on me, Bobbbiez! Because you know there's no easy answer to that. Not that I won't try.

But first, I need to say that I'm still looking for an answer to who is at fault for the state of the streets today .. the court, the police, the who? ... and blaming it on booking procedures or the amount of equipment cops have to carry isn't a good answer. (And I know you didn't mean to imply that was a complete answer.)

OK, here goes. When you and I were running around Addison Miller trying to spell hormones, we lived in a society that was tightly under control and had just left an era when people who didn't work pretty much were left to fend for themselves or die off. It was a cruel world for our grandparents and only those who could and would work ... and could find work... survived. Some of our parents, many of our grandparents and virtually all of our ancestors had come from countries where common people were treated like dirt. You and I have nice memories, our elders may not have. And don't forget that virtually everything you can read about American life before our parents was written by those above the working class, many of whom had very nice memories of summers at the lake, débutante balls and great times in college....while yours and my grandparents were cleaning out their drains and cooking their meals. My grandmother didn't quit school in the third grade and go to work in Utica's cloth mills because she was stupid; she went to work so her family could eat.

Over time, society decided to help the poor in a more organized manner for two reasons. From a political point of view, it could garner votes and rejuvenate the economy when people had money to buy things that were manufactured by their neighbors in the US. The second reason was many citizens supported this ... such programs as FDR's New Deal ... because we were a nation of folks who liked to help our neighbors.

Unfortunately, some of this liberal thought and activity eventually contributed to the establishment of a so called underclasses of people who don't work and don't plan to. And they are manipulated by politicians who know how to use small numbers of voters to swing elections. It's all much more complicated than that, of course, but I think in a nutshell I'd say that our Addison Miller days were lived out in a brief interlude after WW II when the economy was booming, the government was ascendant, the citizenry would do anything to be protected from "The Bomb" and the underclass was not yet fully established, as they are today. (Can you imagine how Al Sharpton would have been treated in 1955?)

You could call our wonderful childhood a quirk or even a pleasant moment in the crazy ride modern civilization is taking to God knows where. It's as if we were on a train moving very slowly and then we feel the exhilaration when it speeds up as we pass Addison Miller. But it's keep going faster and now it's getting scary.

What you and I remember are the good times. And they ain't comin' back. The only solution is to get ahead of it, by moving to a town or country where the middle class appears to be in control. In Utica, they are not in control. The politicians are middle class (if they have any "class") but they're certainly not in control. What you see in the papers each morning are grown men and women strutting around piles of poop they are sometimes able (but seldom willing) to shovel over into another corner.

I know you love your city. But you're in love with a corpse.
Sorry, but that's my opinion and I hold it about any city in New York State today. You're a strong woman, Bz, and you have a heart of gold. I can talk on forever while you actually get out and do. But I think your city will never come back to life, not as we knew it.

[Clipper]

Much of what you speak of Bobbbiez is disgusting, but not criminal to the point of drug dealing and violence.

Much of the walking in the streets, cussing and using the F word, littering, not being able to live in a peaceful and quiet neighborhood, is not criminal in nature, although it is a shame.

You have my utmost sympathy Bobbbiez, but I am afraid that although you fight valiantly to "take back the streets" in your neighborhoods, it is a little late and not enough. You are sadly outnumbered. The chance of keeping your neighborhood as it was in the old days went south with the neighbors that sold their homes to trash and slum lords and moved to the burbs.

As for the task force, politics most likely plays a large part, and unfortunately for county taxpayers, the most of the money is spent in the city, on city drug crime. Unfortunately, Utica is the boil on the ass of county drug enforcement, and is where the puss oozes from. If there is a non-political way for it to function, it would be to give the state police the overall command of the unit. They are far less politically motivated than either county or city cops.

I agree that the F word is heard all too much today. I can't believe how prevalent it has become, or how acceptable to so many, including girls. That is a simple matter of upbringing and manners.

The problem that you are experiencing is the result of trashy people, raising trashy kids, with no discipline, guidance, or consideration for anyone but themselves. The sad fact is that you are probably really outnumbered by the offenders, rather than surrounded by defenders. I am brought to the verge of tears when I go back and take a look at places that held fond memories for me, and find them either gone or run down beyond recognition. My heart is with yours Bobbbiez, but we have lost the battle. The inner city belongs to that class of people that you struggle so hard to fight back. I love Utica as much as you do, but it is never going to be neighborhoods of picket fences and backyard gardens again, unless the Bosinans and others can buy the old homes and rebuild the neighborhoods. It can't be done with slumlords owning the homes and poverty level people with nothing invested living in them.

[corner]

most of what drives any justice system is money income out go the costs ofhousing more people on parole who shouldnt be and early release from prison all driven by economics it is more cost effective to give joe citizen a speeding ticket than it is to take a drug dealer off of the street the ticket brings in money prosecuting the dealer costs.

[bobbbiez]

Dave, you know I just love picking on you. Gives Clipper a break and keeps you on your toes.

First let me say, I am not aiming the drastic changes just in Utica. I read the newspapers and watch the news everyday and crime is hitting everyone even in the suburbs. Can't tell you how many times I've heard the statement from people in quiet little towns say after a horrible crime that, "this just happens here." Well, it is and it's happening all over no matter where you live. Moving to where? It's just a matter of time before it finds you and that time is getting shorter for everyone.

Yes, my grandparents were poor and so were my parents but just because they were in that lower class doesn't mean one had to steal, pillage, rape or kill, which ours didn't. Being poor doesn't mean you have to choose a criminal life. I don't find that to be an answer to why crime is growing so rapidly all over.

Something is not right and where do we change it? I know I will never seen a change for the better in my lifetime, especially when you have people like Sharpton who just loves to fuel the fire. I am so happy I don't have to raise kids in this sick society today.

I think Corner is right when he has said to start knocking in heads like the good old days. We have to take our streets back and if you live in the suburbs take your roads back. We have to start working together against the criminals instead of working to have more laws put on the books everyday that I believe our court system is ignoring.

Finally, we have to keep departments such as the county drug task force working to get these dirt bags out of our neighborhoods no matter where we live. When a force like that is organized it should tell people that the cities are not the only ones dealing with the drug problems and crimes related.

[bobbbiez]

Mar 29, 2010 11:29:20 GMT -5 corner said:

most of what drives any justice system is money income out go the costs ofhousing more people on parole who shouldnt be and early release from prison all driven by economics it is more cost effective to give joe citizen a speeding ticket than it is to take a drug dealer off of the street the ticket brings in money prosecuting the dealer costs.[/quote

Corner, when it comes to traffic tickets most of the money collected goes to the state and not to the municipalities. Recently at a meeting I suggested to my councilman that the council check into a possible way the officers can issue "city traffic tickets" where the money would stay in our area. That is being searched at present. I am awaiting the outcome of their search and will let you know what info I get back.

I am in total agreement with you and have stated many times that it is the courts and the systems that follow why these criminals are back on the streets way too soon.

[corner]

bobbie the initialfine goesto the municipality issuing the ticket the state gets a surcharge..nothing needs change when utica issues a ticket if the fine is $200 utica gets the 200 and in a ddition the state gets a150 surcharge so the cost of the ticket to the offender is350 bucks.200 to the city of utica 150 to the state

[bobbbiez]

From what I was told at the meeting and only repeating.........80% goes to the state and 20% to the city.

[corner]

wh;y do you think speed traps are so profitable with the locals like franfort oriskany new harford

[bobbbiez]

I know they're profitable to everyone but who is getting most of the profit since it is a state traffic law?

Just wish I knew for sure if the info I was given is correct.