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Post by denise on Dec 10, 2009 17:21:31 GMT -5
I don't understand why it is okay to many people that something as important as providing health care to those who need it and deserve it (the working poor) should be rushed along and completed as a half-assed job.
What happens when the half-assed job is completed (yea team), and the people who need and deserve health care the most (the working poor), still don't have and/or can't afford the health care premiums?
What will have been accomplished besides "yea team we got the job done"?
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 10, 2009 18:42:03 GMT -5
I hate to sound crass, or more crass than usual  stoney, but The welfare system is screwed up. Yes, the healthcare issue is important, but before we pass laws that simply add to the cost and the problems, straighten out the mess we have. I am a firm believer that welfare recipients should be dealt with by drug testing monthly, forcing them to go on job interviews, just as unemployment recipients normally are encouraged to do, and by simply ignoring those that are hard core and brazen in sitting back and sucking on the tit of society. It will be one hell of alot easier and cheaper to bury them than to feed them for a lifetime.  Damn Clipper, I've been saying that from day one. It's the Welfare System y'all should be attacking and put all energy into wanting to change. It's because of that system giving to the totally useless that the ones truly in need suffer for. And that's been no big dark secret. Until that system starting on local levels is fixed you will always be supporting the useless. At least with this health reform those who truly need and are just over the assistance guide lines whether it be Medicaid or SSI assistance will be able to receive some relief in the high cost of medical care. This reform is not passed yet so what's the big to do about it now. Before it passes I'm sure all the rough edges will be smooth out. Especially since all tax payers will be paying for it including our legislators who hate to lose a penny of their monies.  |
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Post by gski on Dec 10, 2009 20:45:48 GMT -5
I agree with you on the welfare system, however nothings being done on it and the abuse continues.
Why not put in a temporary fix for the unemployed? Use some of the "leftover" stimulus money for those currently hurt most by the economy and put them on Medicaid? The states can be reimbursed for the expense and the money has already been allocated.
The issue that I see is that they will pass something, by then it'll be 3000 pages of BS, which becomes law and we have to start to pay for immediately, through taxes and higher premiums.
Here's some samples of how the Senate bill reads:
First page: - before you even get to the content page
To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to modify the first-time homebuyers credit in the case of members of the Armed Forces and certain other Federal employees,
and for other purposes.
Referred to the Committee on llllllllll and ordered to be printed Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed AMENDMENT IN THE NATURE OF A SUBSTITUTE intended to be proposed by Mr. REID (for himself, Mr. BAUCUS, Mr. DODD, and Mr. HARKIN) llllllllll
Viz:
1 Strike all after the enacting clause and insert the following:
3 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.
4 (a) SHORT TITLE.—This Act may be cited as the
5 ‘‘Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’’.
6 (b) TABLE OF CONTENTS.—The table of contents of
7 this Act is as follows:
‘‘SEC. 2713. COVERAGE OF PREVENTIVE HEALTH SERVICES.
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—A group health plan and a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall provide coverage for and shall not im10
pose any cost sharing requirements for—
‘‘(1) evidence-based items or services that have in effect a rating of ‘A’ or ‘B’ in the current rec
ommendations of the United States Preventive Services Task Force;
‘‘(2) immunizations that have in effect a recommendation from the Advisory Committee on Im
munization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention with respect to the individual involved; and ‘‘(3) with respect to infants, children, and adolescents, evidence-informed preventive care and screenings provided for in the comprehensive guidelines supported by the Health Resources and Services Administration.
ok....you are starting to become sleepy...here's some more
‘‘(B) a description of the coverage, including cost sharing for—
‘‘(i) each of the categories of the essential health benefits described in sub3
paragraphs (A) through (J) of section 4 1302(b)(1) of the Patient Protection and
Affordable Care Act; and ‘‘(ii) other benefits, as identified by the Secretary;
‘‘(C) the exceptions, reductions, and limitations on coverage; ‘‘(D) the cost-sharing provisions, including deductible, coinsurance, and co-payment obligations;
‘‘(E) the renewability and continuation of coverage provisions; ‘‘(F) a coverage facts label that includes examples to illustrate common benefits scenarios, including pregnancy and serious or chronic medical conditions and related cost sharing, such scenarios to be based on recognized clinical practice guidelines; ‘‘(G) a statement of whether the plan or coverage—
‘‘(i) provides minimum essential coverage (as defined under section 5000A(f)
of the Internal Revenue Code 1986);
---wait...this is health care...what's the Internal Revenue code crap...
a little more..
‘‘(1) REQUIREMENT TO PROVIDE VALUE FOR PREMIUM PAYMENTS.—A health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall, with respect to each plan year, provide an annual rebate to each enrollee under such coverage, on a pro rata basis, in an amount that is equal to the amount by which premium revenue expended by the issuer on activities described in subsection (a)(3) exceeds— ‘‘(A) with respect to a health insurance
issuer offering coverage in the group market, 20 percent, or such lower percentage as a State may by regulation determine; or ‘‘(B) with respect to a health insurance
issuer offering coverage in the individual market, 25 percent, or such lower percentage as a
State may by regulation determine, except that such percentage shall be adjusted to the extent the Secretary determines that the application of such percentage with a State may destabilize the existing individual market in such State.
‘‘(2) CONSIDERATION IN SETTING PERCENTAGES.—In determining the percentages under para
graph (1), a State shall seek to ensure adequate participation by health insurance issuers, competition in the health insurance market in the State, and value for consumers so that premiums are used for clinical services and quality improvements.
‘‘(3) TERMINATION.—The provisions of this subsection shall have no force or effect after December 31, 2013.
‘‘(c) STANDARD HOSPITAL CHARGES.—Each hospital operating within the United States shall for each year establish (and update) and make public (in accordance with guidelines developed by the Secretary) a list of the hospital’s standard charges for items and services provided by the hospital, including for diagnosis-related groups established under section 1886(d)(4) of the Social Security Act.
----yawning now...oops...what's the social security act have to do with this....
Just a little more sampling...
(c) QUALIFIED HIGH RISK POOL.— (1) IN GENERAL.—Amounts made available under this section shall be used to establish a qualified high risk pool that meets the requirements of
paragraph (2).
(2) REQUIREMENTS.—A qualified high risk pool meets the requirements of this paragraph if such pool— (A) provides to all eligible individuals health insurance coverage that does not impose any preexisting condition exclusion with respect to such coverage;
(B) provides health insurance coverage— (i) in which the issuer’s share of the total allowed costs of benefits provided under such coverage is not less than 65 percent of such costs; and (ii) that has an out of pocket limit not greater than the applicable amount described in section 223(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 for the year involved, except that the Secretary may modify such limit if necessary to ensure the pool meets the actuarial value limit under clause (i); (C) ensures that with respect to the premium rate charged for health insurance coverage offered to eligible individuals through the high risk pool, such rate shall—
(i) except as provided in clause (ii), vary only as provided for under section 2701 of the Public Health Service Act (as amended by this Act and notwithstanding the date on which such amendments take effect);
(ii) vary on the basis of age by a factor of not greater than 4 to 1; and (iii) be established at a standard rate for a standard population; and (D) meets any other requirements determined appropriate by the Secretary.
(d) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.—An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible individual for purposes of this section if such individual— (1) is a citizen or national of the United States
or is lawfully present in the United States (as determined in accordance with section 1411);
(2) has not been covered under creditable coverage (as defined in section 2701(c)(1) of the Public Health Service Act as in effect on the date of enactment of this Act) during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage through the high risk pool; and (3) has a pre-existing condition, as determined in a manner consistent with guidance issued by the Secretary.
(e) PROTECTION AGAINST DUMPING RISK BY INSURERS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall establish criteria for determining whether health insurance issuers and employment-based health plans have discouraged an individual from remaining enrolled in prior coverage based on that individual’s health status.
Wow....talk about nodding off and that's just a few pages. Boy is the Health and Human Services Secretary going to be busy deciding things...
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 10, 2009 23:05:35 GMT -5
I'm use to nodding off just having to read all the new information every year at this time on my Medicare, health supplement plan and prescription drug plans. Do you think for one minute anyone really understands their own coverage completely with all that mumble-jumble? I wouldn't pretend to say I understand it. As "Joe Friday" would say, give me "just the facts, ma'am and nothing but the facts."
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Post by Ralph on Dec 11, 2009 2:23:35 GMT -5
The long and short of it.
You will pay, regardless.
A lot.
If you don't understand the policies we will explain them to you.
You will pay, regardless.
A lot.
If you cannot afford this plan.
You will pay, regardless.
A lot.
If you cannot pay............
You're screwed.
A lot.
That about cover it Gear?
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Post by stoney on Dec 11, 2009 10:01:21 GMT -5
My God, Clip. I basically said what YOU said! Just in not so many words.
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Post by stoney on Dec 11, 2009 10:03:58 GMT -5
Gear, you obviously have a copy of this huge proposed tax reform. So please show us where it says people will be hauled off to jail, even if it is tacked onto their tax bill.
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Post by concerned on Dec 11, 2009 11:32:21 GMT -5
They say that Medicare is broken. Why not fix it and use that Insurance plan to include everyone who wants to sign on with it. Change the formula for reembersment to Doctor's so that Family Health Doctors will take on more patients.
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Dec 11, 2009 18:05:22 GMT -5
Gear, you obviously have a copy of this huge proposed tax reform. So please show us where it says people will be hauled off to jail, even if it is tacked onto their tax bill. You'll find the fines for not purchasing mandated insurance, and the provision for it's treatment as a tax liability, in section 1501: democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdfThe penalties for refusing to pay taxes are rather well known, I should think. |
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Post by gski on Dec 11, 2009 18:24:44 GMT -5
It's rather interesting when you read the bill(s), and it's full of tax code references. Tax code, tax credits etc. Some speculate that it's so they can go countrywide with it without issue. Government can collect taxes from the states.
I will say one thing that's for sure....I don't think it's ever polorized a country more!
Right now there's a whole lot of people pissed at our government...how come they don't seem scared?
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Post by rodwilson on Dec 11, 2009 18:40:20 GMT -5
And now their talking max annual beni cap. Wonder who'd be after something like that.
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Post by Clipper on Dec 11, 2009 20:05:18 GMT -5
You are right about one thing gski. That is that the American people are mad at their government. I received a package from the Federal Retiree's lobby a while back. It included a window sticker for your car that said "I am a proud Federal Government Retiree" I told Kathy, " I am not putting that thing in MY window. They would shoot bullet holes in the truck when I took it to the store, haha.
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Post by gski on Dec 11, 2009 20:56:52 GMT -5
It's unfortunately becoming laughable to a degree each day. More comes out, going to cost a lot more, limits on, limits off, new taxes. Tons of new amendments to the original plan, now move people to Medicare & Medicaid and tax the rest of us even more. It's like they are running in circles, putting their fingers in the holes of their bill.
The more they work on things, the more convoluted it becomes. They are living up to their name....Congress...the opposite of Progress.
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Post by dgriffin on Dec 11, 2009 22:17:48 GMT -5
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Post by gski on Dec 12, 2009 5:54:35 GMT -5
Dave, yup, I keep reading a lot about this option and the Medicaid one. They'd expand both and put some changes in both.
Then we'd all get the crap taxed out of us to pay for the changes, and the cost of Medicare would go up.
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stoney, but The welfare system is screwed up. Yes, the healthcare issue is important, but before we pass laws that simply add to the cost and the problems, straighten out the mess we have. I am a firm believer that welfare recipients should be dealt with by drug testing monthly, forcing them to go on job interviews, just as unemployment recipients normally are encouraged to do, and by simply ignoring those that are hard core and brazen in sitting back and sucking on the tit of society. It will be one hell of alot easier and cheaper to bury them than to feed them for a lifetime. 
Damn Clipper, I've been saying that from day one. It's the Welfare System y'all should be attacking and put all energy into wanting to change. It's because of that system giving to the totally useless that the ones truly in need suffer for. And that's been no big dark secret. Until that system starting on local levels is fixed you will always be supporting the useless. 
