Government option dead?

[Clipper]

I was reading an article in our local paper this morning that indicated that the dems are giving up on the government option and leaning toward a plan with private companies to be overseen by a federal agency.

They also indicate that part of the plan would be to allow those unable to afford insurance to qualify for Medicare at 55 years old. I am not sure what impact that will have overall, but I am sure it will offer a little relief to counties and states in the form of fewer medicaid clients. ANY plan they come up with is going to cost us one way or the other, whether it be in increased medicare costs, or taxes, it has to be paid for somehow.

The major problem that I see is in having "government oversight" from the present administration. They have yet to convince me that they are capable of overseeing ANYTHING without throwing a few more billions at it, or forcing someone into bankruptcy only to be bailed out with MY money.

[gski]

Clipper you are correct. I've read the same type of info.

I'm feeling a draft from a back door by our beloved Congress. That backdoor being Medicare/Medicaid expansion.

This way they can say..."no new government program", just an expansion of the existing.

You're also correct, the government oversight is wraught with "blindness" and corruption.

It's like they're introducing another shell to the game, moving them around and then asking us to find the pea underneath.

They moved the shell years ago with Medicaid and the states got stuck with the increases, which turned into higher taxes for all of us.

I'm afraid that they might just do something like this: "Because the American people are against a "new" form of government healthcare, but, we must do something for the millions of people who cannot afford healthcare, we have decided to expand the eligibility of existing government programs, Medicaid and Medicare."

It gets around the screaming of the abortion issue, the screaming of creating a new beauracy to support a new program and gives eligibility to more people. The can add to the existing laws and eligibility guidelines and the grandstanding is over.

It also gives them what they want if they can pass it....more access to our wallets in the name of two programs that they already have an infrastructure in place, albeit ones with major flaws, along with taxation laws already in affect, that can just simply be adjusted up.

All could be done with a sleight of hand and a further dip into our wallets. Let's hope not.

[stoney]

Oh, great. There goes any help for Ralph & his wife (from another thread).

[Clipper]

What I have believed since the start is that there needs to be a co-op like plan where individuals can buy into a group plan. There needs to be several price options allowing the price to dictate whether one wants to pay for basic primary care and prescriptions, or whether they want to add bells and whistles.

The plan that I have limits my prescription coverage to $2K annually, because I have VA coverage for my meds, but it covers major medical. There are thousands of plans out there, tailored to an individuals needs. Price is the only problem, and government oversight should be no more involved than controlling a coop program for those that don't have a group plan available to them, and possibly a tax deduction for the premiums.

Minimize the cost, but keep a cost factor in the plan. There is NO free lunch for anyone, so let's not create one for any specific demographic. Even those on medicare pay 80 or 90 bucks a month I think.

[gski]

Clipper, some of your ideas were actually proposed by the dreaded.....Republicans and immediately shot down by the all knowing Demogogs, sorry Demorats, sorry Democrats we having congress currently.

The idea to be able to "pool" groups of individuals together, ie: buying power only makes sense. Sorry, I keep forgetting, we're talking about our politicians, making any sense.

I agree with the no free lunch portion too, however, there's too many people who believe they are "owed" by the government do to their ills, etc. It's called no accountability.

Simply look at the well intended programs that were created. Welfare, SSI, disability, etc.
Well intended, however, now they've become mamouth entitlement programs and have gone far beyond their original intentions.

I wish I had an answer, however, there's one thing for sure, what's being proposed is not the answer, only a nail in the coffin.

[dgriffin]

Dave, the mighty Political Prognosticator (that's sarcasm) predicts:

A. your medical care will cost more
B. your medical care will begin to be rationed more
C. your medical care will still be the best in the world -- for a while
D. your politicians will congratulate themselves for a job well done and give themselves a raise.
E. you'll pay for all of this

[Clipper]

You are more than likely correct on all counts Dave. It doesn't take a crystal ball to see that the money for all of it will come from us in increased taxes, and the politicians will be proclaiming their wondrous works in getting it done. This is only the beginning of the CHANGE that we have been promised. Somehow it isn't as glorious as it all sounded in the campaign speeches though.

[Ralph]

I do agree with Clipper, no free lunch.

But there needs to be sliding rates in place that people can afford while moving up in the world.

When I wasn’t working, I had Medicaid……it was all free.
I started working at minimum wage and Family Health Plus was the next step……there were some co-pays and not all my scripts were covered, had to have approval for some procedures. No problem, I could live with that.

Then, I got a raise and made about $30 more a week……BINGO.
Since I no longer qualify for FHP I move up to Healthy New York.
I immediately have to pay $258 a month ($302 as of 2010), co-pays with a minimum of $20 a pop for EVERYTHING and a $100 deductible per year for my scripts.

Uh…..that was more than twice what my raise was! Get ahead??? Hell no, it immediately puts you farther behind than you were before!
is wrong with this picture?!?!?

I am pretty sure that when my next raise goes through that I would not even be eligible for that, so you move up next to buying you own insurance outright….at $1500+ a month!

Caskets are far cheaper and easier to find than affordable health insurance.

The Guberment broke it, they will never fix it…..only make it worse.

[Ralph]

Oh........but even though I can no longer afford health care, my taxes will go to pay for those that don't care to work towards it themselves.

THAT is what really frosts my ass!

[gski]

Ralph, the problem is you work. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but that's the issue. If you just gave up and weren't a contributing member of society, oh yeah, one more thing, became a member of the minority class, then you could get everything for free.

Your points are truly well taken. You get a raise and because of it, now you can't get any help in other areas. Hmmm...could it be because those who have made the laws simply don't take those types of things into any type of thought?

What's even more amazing is that you get a raise, which can put you into another tax bracket by mere dollars, you can end up with less pay and the topper is that you can never see it do to the rest of the costs, ie: insurance and other taxes going up.

The most beguiling thought of all is that our government doesn't see any of this? Why? Because they no longer think of the people, rather of control and expansion of power.

Lincoln wrote: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal....and... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

We are no longer playing by those rules....

[stoney]

"C. your medical care will still be the best in the world -- for a while"

Dave, it is NOT the best in the world NOW!!!! We're ranked 12th or 15th, I believe.

"The Guberment broke it, they will never fix it…..only make it worse."

Ralph, I believe the government along with the insurance companies "broke it". But I do believe it can be fixed. Let's let them at least try instead of knocking it down before it's even built!!

[bobbbiez]

Stoney, that's one I'll drink to! If I drank.

[Clipper]

Stoney, the trouble with "letting them try" is that what they "try" becomes law, and then it is cast in stone until someone can overturn or amend it. In the mean time my butt is sore from all their attempts to "do right" being introduced through "my back door".

For those that are truly in need, and those that work but don't make enough money to buy insurance at today's prices, reform is needed. For the lazy and the parasites that suck on the social programs while able bodied, they can die for all I care.

For those like Ralph that are working but make just over the guidelines to receive help, the guidelines need to be changed. For those that are able to work, but DON'T work, HAVEN'T worked, and have no intention of working, let their lazy asses rot. Maybe if they get a tooth ache they will at least be forced to get job long enough to buy a tube of orajel. Kinda like natural selection. The lazy will die off and the welfare rolls will shrink. Drug dealers and liquor stores will lose busniness, but our streets will be safer and out taxes will be lower.

My solution to some of the welfare problem is this. People tend not to work because child care expense is going to eat up their wage. I contend that rather than to give them a welfare check, make them work for their food and money, but give them assistance only in the form of childcare funding and food stamps and medicaide. Might tend to lower the numbers of the demographic that we know exists where some mothers, not all, sit home with an unemployed, lazy boyfriend or husband, banging out kids and increasing their public assistance check. If they have to work, they learn or hone a skill, feel more self worth, and definitely become more productive in a society that is sick of supporting the slackers. Not to mention the fact that their children will learn a set of values that includes WORKING.

Why not wait until we have a program that has been thought out, pro's AND con's addressed, and a little more research and thought has gone into, before we put another law on the books with no money to fund it. An unfulfilled promise to reform healthcare is better than healthcare reform that is unacceptable to the majority of the American public. Others have tried, like Hillary Clinton did, and the only reason it was not instituted at that time was because, exactly as is the case today, nobody could find a way to fund the programs that were being proposed.

It seems like this administration is hell bent to fulfill all the pie in the sky promises that Obama made, and leave the next administration to find a way to pay for them. Guaranteed that if all this comes to fruition, there will NOT be a second term for these people.

[gearofzanzibar]

Dec 10, 2009 11:09:33 GMT -5 @stoney said:

Let's let them at least try instead of knocking it down before it's even built!!

So we should just meekly go along with this because it was well intentioned?

Is that what we should tell the first person jailed because they refused to buy a government mandated product? Because that's exactly where this monstrosity leads- to a jail cell. Without the threat of imprisonment to coerce participation the whole thing collapses.

If this proposed plan goes through, simple inaction, literally doing nothing, will become a crime punishable by fines and jail time. Of all the reasons to dislike this "reform" that's the one that leaps out at me, because it's so insidiously contrary to our nation's founding principles.

[bobbbiez]

OH BULLSH*T! at least Obama is trying to do something for the people who really need and can't afford proper health care. Maybe it's not all to your liking but it has to be done. Has nothing to do with who is President.

And it's not fair or right to not do it because a few scumbags will take advantage of the program. Wake up and smell the roses......they are the ones who are already ripping off and benefiting from welfare and Medicaid.

Now at least, those who are truly needly, who are working every day, paying their taxes but can't afford the high cost of medical needs for their families will benefit besides just the scumbags.