Highrise Living?

[tanouryjr]

strikeslip.blogspot.com/2009/06/highrise-living.html

Good post from Strike. I'm pretty conflicted on this. I think the overall plan that was announced was pretty exciting and positive. Strike and enlightened me on some history and points regarding the Kennedy Garage site.

I'd like to here what everyone thinks and some ideas for development in Utica. It's extremely frustrating to see the continued failure of EDGE. I also see so many possibilities for the City of Utica, but somehow everyone finds a way to screw things up. I also find that the people with the best ideas and best understanding, are usually NOT elected officials or government workers.

So I'd like to hear some ideas. I know Ralph and I have talked and he has a ton of great ideas. Hopefully someday we'll be in a position to impliment them.

[chris]

I agree with Strikeslip. That is the most dumbest idea ever presented or even thought of. Maybe offices but definitely not housing.

[clarencebunsen]

To be fair, I'll take the contrarian position and list all the positive aspects of this project:


(I got nothin', someone help please)

[gearofzanzibar]

The Hotel Utica has six floors that aren't being used and it's only a block away. If the sole goal of this project is to get people downtown that would seem to be the perfect solution.

[clarencebunsen]

Ok, Take 2:

Due to global warming the arctic sea ice may soon disappear completely during the summer. Santa will need a new summer home. Six stories seems about right for him, Mrs Claus and the elves. Kennedy garage could be remodeled into stables for the reindeer.

With the rest of the stimulus money we could build a workshop and warehouse on the old Washington Courts site and a subway line to link it to Santa Tower. With the railroad tracks nearby, there will soon be high speed rail lines to ship toys to boys and girls all over the world and the reindeer can start their well earned retirement.

[concerned]

Jun 6, 2009 4:45:19 GMT -5 clarencebunsen said:

To be fair, I'll take the contrarian position and list all the positive aspects of this project:


(I got nothin', someone help please)

I think many people would rush to have apartments downtown. Especially after the outdoor Greek revival amphi-theater is built at Hanna Park. This will connect with the Oneida Square Theme Park. I think the high speed trolley's transporting loads of people, which will come from all over the world, to the various entertainment area's throughout the city will be such an economic boom for Utica. I can hear people in West Palm Beach saying the they spend there summers in Utica because of its world wide status as an economical entertainment mecca.

[dgriffin]

Jun 5, 2009 23:05:38 GMT -5 @tanouryjr said:

It's extremely frustrating to see the continued failure of EDGE.

Really?? I hate to be sarcastic, Larry, but you must be the only believer. I have NEVER heard that any such cheerleader/development organization accomplished ANYTHING, with the possible exception of lining their own pockets, or those of their relatives. I'm quite serious. I know of no successes.

I think the following statement from Strike's article says it all: " The city cannot get private investors to do this, so it gets the taxpayers to do it instead."

And I do mean ALL. It's all that's wrong with government today: elected officials playing Donald Trump with our dollars and without a lick of sense between their ears.

Close your ears a moment, Larry. Got 'em closed real tight?
OK, here goes. If the elected officials of the city of Utica were capable of making long range commercial real estate decisions, they'd be doing something more important than governing the city of Utica.

OK, Larry, you can open your ears now. I said nothing about Oneida County officials.

Why not ask Albany if it worked for them. They did a similar thing a few years ago, put upscale apartments downtown on Broadway for clients who might bring some influence downtown. "Build it and they'll come approach." I don't honestly know how it worked out, but I'm sure other cities have tried it, so why not ask them?

But I'm not expecting to hear any wildly successful stories.

(By the way, Strike, it may well be you can put an apartment house over a parking lot, but not an office building. Gross weight of an apartment house (which includes contents) may be less than for other-use buildings.)

[snickers]

I don't believe the present economy can support this. A better idea would be to utilize existing rental vacancies, and develop other existing facilities (the Harza and the unused - and taxpayer facilitated - floors of the Hotel Utica). For that matter, there are a LOT of unused barracks rooms at The Griff. Hey, we have a social responsibility to provide basic shelter for those unable/unwilling to do for themselves. We don't owe them luxury.

[rrogers40]

Just because you build it doesn't mean people will come. Look at all the other attemps Utica has made to bring people down town. I love it when a place, whether it be city or town, thinks that by building one building, bringing in one business, doing one thing is going to revitalize them. They would be better served taking the money and putting it into a lot of little things. At least this way if one of those things fails they won't feel it as much than if an entire housing development collapses in on them.

[tanouryjr]

Dave, you hit the nail on the head. I agree 100% and have stated it over and over on the legislature - then they call me a "troublemaker." I have voted NO to EDGE's contract both years I've been there and don't plan on voting yes anytime soon, lol.

Then there's GLDC. That's a debate to be had at a more appropriate time, and it will be had.

[Swimmy]

Let's assume for a minute that this high rise apartment "idea" (I use that word loosely) is brilliant and will attract hundreds to downtown.

What type of people is this high rise intended to attract?
From the article and strikeslip's post, it appears that these are going to be public housing apartments. Not to overly generalize, but many who live in public housing have either lived past their working years or leech off tax dollars without putting much effort into being a productive member of society. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions and I do not wish to include them in this discussion. If the goal is to ultimately turn the economy around and produce high paying jobs, why not make the apartments for those people who could fill those jobs?

I was eavesdropping on a conversation the other day. One guy was suggesting that to revitalize downtown and remove the riff raft, the city should raze all the run down buildings and replace them with new buildings that cost more than those on public assistance can afford. Then put in a few high rise complexes on the city's limits.

Part of me agrees with that idea. The residential housing here in Binghamton is not that great. It's the end result of years of absentee landlords not maintaining properties. For a young professional, it is difficult to find good housing. I swear, where I live now, my neighbors are into some unsavory business practices. And on hot summer evenings, it's like a wood stock, people blasting their music and a wall of pot smoke 5 feet thick surrounds that house. Something needs to be done to make them productive members of society.

As an attorney who still represents many unable to afford their own legal representation, my heart goes out to those who can't afford their own housing without some form of public assistance (e.g. Art. 8 housing, or cash assistance). So if we were to implement that idea, I would want to make sure they had some place to go.

But this all dove tails back to what type of people the city wants to attract downtown. If the ultimate goal is to attract young professionals, thus yielding more businesses, maybe making something that is ideal for young professionals is better. I read how there is a lot of places for the elderly and the poor to live (not inclusive, e.g. Preswick Glen), but what about the young professional, fresh out of school with a job that barely covers student loans?

[dgriffin]

The way it used to work, PEOPLE created housing, not agencies. A number of young(or old) professionals or mechanics ... whoever were doing well enough to have some money ... would get together, purchase some land and build homes suitable to their tastes, needs and "station."

All the while this was happening, the government was selling driver's licenses, picking up garbage and planning for the defense of the nation ... and not much else, please God.

Turns out cities as we knew them don't work anymore. Let's not keep them on life support.

By the way Swimmy, Woodstock is an arts colony, not a ghetto. True we were invaded in '69 by nascent "young professionals," (and again in '94) but we survived it.

[Swimmy]

I was referring to the times of blasting music and smoking pot. While something that is common to a ghetto, I'm not in the ghetto.

[chris]

When I got divorced I found an apartment at Kennedy Plaza. (not sure what it is like now) Back then it was great for me. I was in walking distance to work since I didn't have a car. The rent was according to my income. What I liked the best was (looking back in comparison) was that they had only adults, older and young couples in one building. (the other building with more than one bedroom excepted children which was great. It kept our building quiet) A nice lobby (no loitering) seperate from main entrance. They had two elavator systems. One for travel and the other only used for the removal of trash and maintenance. They also excepted your UPS pkgs.

When I moved to back home I seeked out something similar (where I am still living) I thought it was the same but was completely differently run and designed. The residents at the time were very similar to myself so we had something in common. This rapidly changed as more of people like myself (avg middle class white caucasion...well maybe not middle class since I only could afford to live there) moved out and was replaced with blacks, and hispanics. Now I see a lot of Bosnians and Middle Easterners. Bosnians are okay. They are clean the rest have turned this complex into what I consider a slum. They are pigs and totaly inconsidrate of other peoples properties. Everytime I step in the elevator all I see is trash dropped or spilled drinks. There is no excuse for this too me. But I am stuck here for now. This causes me too have an extreme dislike for these peoples and the Hispanics the most as they are the biggest offenders. Plus the fact their language makes my ears bleed. They are loud and obnoxious and refuse to acclimate like the rest of us and to use English. (another pet peeve of mine) When I was working I would be gone most of the day and either came home and stayed in my apartment or came home later in the evening so the changes that happened seemed a shock when I actually started to notice the difference of what was around me. (10 little indians, one left and soon there was only me)

Day one of moving in. Found out the only way to do this was to move through the trash room. Gagging and choking all the way. Had I known about that I would never had moved in. Too Late.

There have been at least 3 owners since I have been here and the last is the worse. Confer Realty. They only think of lining their own pockets. For them it is a business deal and they have apbsolutley no regard for their tenants.

Downstairs, Management is all Hispanic and caters to them so they aren't going to call foul to their own.

The worse thing anyone can do is build more places such as this. I think single homes are more the way. Then people take care and show more respect for thier own place of living. Or am I wrong.


Do I like high rise living....Hell NO if it is low income living. I think there should be a place for people like myself but if you did that then it would be called discimination, racism and all the rest of the adjectives you can think of. But why must I be subjected to a life I was not raised in and will never be comfortable with.

[dgriffin]

Jun 7, 2009 10:28:30 GMT -5 Swimmy said:

I was referring to the times of blasting music and smoking pot. While something that is common to a ghetto, I'm not in the ghetto.

Just razzin' ya.