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Post by fiona on Sept 23, 2009 20:28:15 GMT -5
Yes, it is the busy corner. Only in later years the tops of the builings were taken down. That's why I didn't reckagnize it. You are right about the clock tower for the abstarct company. I think that St. John's towers don't show simply because of the angle of the photgraph. If the photographer was standing across the road, on the north east corner of Bleecker, you would see St. John's. The photo is foreshortened. Am I correct on this?
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Post by jon hynes on Sept 23, 2009 21:18:24 GMT -5
Yes, it is the busy corner. Only in later years the tops of the builings were taken down. That's why I didn't reckagnize it. You are right about the clock tower for the abstarct company. I think that St. John's towers don't show simply because of the angle of the photgraph. If the photographer was standing across the road, on the north east corner of Bleecker, you would see St. John's. The photo is foreshortened. Am I correct on this? The Actual photo is the right side of a stereogram so there's an almost duplicate picture for the left side. Usually a little more of the full shot on the left side. The other shot is a post card and not a photograph. You can also spot the clock tower from the top in the panoramic view, along with the the three church steeples.
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Post by Clipper on Sept 23, 2009 21:31:25 GMT -5
I kinda suspected that to be true. I vaguely remember an abstract company on the corner of Charlotte St and Bleecker. There use to be several abstract outfits up and down Charlotte and on Elizabeth St. Now I guess most of them are "guests" of the County Clerk. I don't remember there ever being a clock tower anywhere near there though. Do you? Did it still exist in our lifetime? I remember waiting for buses and checking the clock on the old city hall, or the clock on the front of the Oneida National Bank that used to be between Dawes and the Boston Store. I wonder what happened to THAT old clock. It was quite ornate and had to be worth some money. I can't remember when or if it disappeared. I might still be there for all I know, LOL. That clock shows in the picture at the top of the Clipper's Busy Corner page. I also noticed that there is a cross on top of the spire of the building on Charlotte and Bleecker. I wonder what church it may have been at one time or another?
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Post by Clipper on Sept 23, 2009 21:40:36 GMT -5
It is too bad that Tony Leone doesn't have time to participate in these discussions. He is old enough to really add some years to what those of us recall in our lifetime. He is a fountain of history when it comes to Utica.
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 24, 2009 0:03:11 GMT -5
We were wondering about the following photo, which I think is the busy corner (so does NYPL), but Fiona is unsure. The odd tower in the following photo should belong to St. John's, but doesn't seem right. www.windsweptpress.com/images/busycorner old.jpg [/img][/quote] O.K. it took awhile to find something to confirm my memories. The Clock was on the South West corner of Charlotte and Bleecker streets. I seem to remember it being an Abstract Company.[/quote] Good catch, Jon! Fiona, it appears the St. John's steeples would be out of frame on the left in the picture that gave us trouble. Clip, I don't remember a clock tower on the corner of Charlotte, but many of the photos I've recently seen have proven to me that I didn't look up very much, because a lot of what's above the first floor level is unfamiliar to me! Jon, damn you've got good eyes! I can't see the abstract company clock tower in the panorama.
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Post by jon hynes on Sept 24, 2009 0:20:19 GMT -5
I kinda suspected that to be true. I vaguely remember an abstract company on the corner of Charlotte St and Bleecker. There use to be several abstract outfits up and down Charlotte and on Elizabeth St. Now I guess most of them are "guests" of the County Clerk. I don't remember there ever being a clock tower anywhere near there though. Do you? Did it still exist in our lifetime? I remember waiting for buses and checking the clock on the old city hall, or the clock on the front of the Oneida National Bank that used to be between Dawes and the Boston Store. I wonder what happened to THAT old clock. It was quite ornate and had to be worth some money. I can't remember when or if it disappeared. I might still be there for all I know, LOL. That clock shows in the picture at the top of the Clipper's Busy Corner page. I also noticed that there is a cross on top of the spire of the building on Charlotte and Bleecker. I wonder what church it may have been at one time or another? This map shows the Bleecker Street Baptist Church on the corner of Bleecker & Charlotte. This seems right to me although I don't remember ever seeing it. I've been thinking of Elizabeth and Charlotte where the abstract company was or is. The Clock protruded from the corner of the building much closer to the ground. (second story)
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 24, 2009 8:20:15 GMT -5
I'll send Archangelo (Tony) another note. I've been meaning to contact him to see how he's doing.
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Post by jon hynes on Sept 27, 2009 23:07:03 GMT -5
www.windsweptpress.com/images/busycorner old.jpg[/img] I just thought I'd mention when finding articles on the building with the clock pictured above I found it to be Conveyed to Charles E. Dudley of Albany and Holmes Hutchinson of the village of Utica 1825 from Edward and Anna Vernon then deeded from Blandina Dudley and Executrix Anna Vernon to the Bethel Baptist Church, and then the Bleecker Street Baptist Church, the Young Men's Christian Association, Central New York Telephone and Telegraph Company. In the Genesee Flats thread there is a reference to Miss Blandina Dudley Miller. Anyway the clock would make more sense in the YMCA or Telephone Co. than a Baptist Church.
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Post by jon hynes on Sept 27, 2009 23:10:47 GMT -5
I went by the area of the above photo the other day and it looks pretty much the same from the corner of Genesee except the Church building is gone and replaced by a parking lot.
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 28, 2009 7:55:40 GMT -5
That's interesting, Jon. Blandina Dudley Miller was the woman who wrote "A Sketch of Oldl Utica." books.google.com/books?id=ZjUWAAAAYAAJ&dq=blandina+dudley+miller+sketches+of+old+utica&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=OThHheP21X&sig=DD-nFOc6zNiBTh__fx25dFIwktQ&hl=en&ei=_qzASp3_K9TR8Aal7si3AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=falseAlso, see this article on the Millers of Rutger Park in the Utica Daily Press from Feb. 8, 1969: www.uticalandmarks.org/rutger_park/millersofrutger.pdfA clock in a church tower was not all that unusual when a village was small and the steeple was the tallest building around. In addition to a "spire to the heavens," the steeple might serve as a clock tower, fire observation tower or chronometer setting aid in a harbor, where the ball dropping technique was used (and where the Times Square tradition comes from.) (Because of the distance some ships might be from shore, a visual cue was needed rather than aural. One second off at sea at the equator is But since the Irish and Italians came last, landing in already developed cities, and possibly for religious reasons, I've seldom if ever seen a clock in the steeple of a Catholic church.
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 28, 2009 8:02:33 GMT -5
Every time I read Blandina Miller, I think that if I could just steal enough land from the Indians, or rob enough poor farmers of their profits, or pay enough poor Irishmen pittances while their children starved, then I could build a house like hers and live happily in Rutger Park and be among friends who mutually think each other important and name streets after each other.
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Post by fiona on Sept 28, 2009 12:05:25 GMT -5
Dave: I believe you are right about the YWCA. It was on that corner and burned down, but I don't know when. I can find out though. The new YWCA was set up in the old Balloil School, or Utica Female Academy, on Genesee Street. The building was torn down and a new modern building put there in the 1960's. It is now a Vet's center. So the photo can be dated to before the old Y burned. About Miss Miller, she did not build that house and moved from there when she was very young. I understand your feelings, and I am going to be exploring more of her personaity in "On Genesee Hill." She did move in societies best circles, in Utica at least, but you have to believe that there were those persons even more wealthy here, such as the Munson's and Proctors, or the McKinnons, who owned factories and drove their workers like cattle. Blandina Miller was a product of her time and upbringing, a brilliant woman who spoke 5 languages and did not have the option of pursuing a carrear open to her, because to do so as a woman would have brought shame to the family. She did what she was expected to do, never married, cared for her elderly mother until she passed in her late 90's. She was a writer as well as a historian and an avid chess player; she wrote articals for a chess magazine also. After the Olbiston was built she lived there with her sister Helen until her death from Bright's Disease on Jan 6th, 1912. The book, A Sketch of Old Utica was published by her sister Helen after her death. She is really a fascinating person, because she lived her life to the fullest despite the rigerous social restrictions of the time.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 22, 2009 19:20:56 GMT -5
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 22, 2009 19:29:38 GMT -5
I'll bet ClarenceBunsen is one of these stalwart Scouts.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 22, 2009 19:43:36 GMT -5
The cars in the background are: a. long term parking b. short term parking c. just stuck in the mud d. junked and waiting for the crusher. The complete "Mohawk (Airlines) In Images" story is at:www.postcardpost.com/MohawkImages.htm
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