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Post by frankcor on Feb 28, 2009 22:33:01 GMT -5
One could make the argument that the Capital Theatre, Rome Historical Society, Ft. Rickey Game Farm and Rome Arts and Community Center are regional assets and should receive financial support from the county taxpayers too. Instead, they get diddly squat.
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Post by strikeslip on Mar 1, 2009 6:15:05 GMT -5
Local Government needs to be realligned, Frankcor. Those places you mentioned ARE regional assets -- but for the Rome region not for Utica -- just like the Stanley, and Utica zoo are regional assets for Utica and not rome. The county did not have to get involved with the Rome assets because Rome is geographically big enough to encompass most of its suburbs. The county got stuck paying for the Utica region's assets because the Utica suburbs insisted on maintaining their separate existence ... Why else form a "Part County" sewer district that is paid for by and serves only Greater Utica residents -- but is controlled by the entire board of legislators? Frankly, the County has no business providing this municipal service to just one part of the county. The County continues to take the side of the suburbs in the battle between Utica and its suburbs ... that battle needs to end with the suburbs becoming part of Utica . . .
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 1, 2009 7:40:36 GMT -5
You guys are going in the wrong direction. Time to end the propping up of expensive mausoleums from a past paradigm, all built with private Robber Baron dollars and today maintained by Robin Hood tax dollars. We're just swapping debt around. If we want something to do at night, instead of going to the Stanley or the Utica Auditorium, we can make our own entertainment by sitting around a bonfire, watching all of our local government ... officials, bureaucracy, inane discourse ... go up in smoke. Burn, baby, burn. Let's admit that local government is a farce and a phantasm. Let's admit that state government is the only solution ... state controlled schools, state mandates, state financial support, state rules and regulations, state police. Let's end the agony and get there. If you believe what you read in the local newspapers across the state and listen to local politicians, you might even think it hasn't happened yet. It has. We've arrived in the Brave New World walking backwards, our eyes on the past. We THINK we control the schools. We THINK we call the shots for our community. We don't. The real waste of money is local government. Get rid of it.  |
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Post by lefty on Mar 1, 2009 12:23:53 GMT -5
One could make the argument that the Capital Theater, Rome Historical Society, Ft. Rickey Game Farm and Rome Arts and Community Center are regional assets and should receive financial support from the county taxpayers too. Instead, they get diddly squat.
Well said Francor
Strike, why should the suburbs part part of Utica, there are people living and working for the City who do not want to live there. That statement in itself in completely ludicrous! ;read the paper this morning I thin the City of Utica's government is way out of control and apparently so does the majority of taxpayers!
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Post by Swimmy on Mar 1, 2009 16:44:13 GMT -5
 Strikeslip, I don't always agree with you on many topics but here I have to agree with you 100%. What you stated is probably the best that would benefit all the most.  The down side is that I can't see it ever happening in my life time. Lefty is right in stating, "there are far too many kingdoms in which the kings wouldn't want to lose "their" courts." Your proposal wouldn't get to first base. None would be willing to give up whatever power they feel they have.  If you can get the right people elected, you'd be amazed at how fast those kingdoms crumbled. I wish I stood a chance of winning an election. The changes you'd see would have your head rolling! |
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Post by Swimmy on Mar 1, 2009 16:46:21 GMT -5
Lefty, the people of Utica have nothing to complain about. They had a chance to avoid all of this! But in large numbers, they voted for roefaro and others who undid any good Julian accomplished, and have caused an even bigger mess than before.
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 1, 2009 17:21:10 GMT -5
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Post by tanouryjr on Mar 1, 2009 20:30:37 GMT -5
Larrry , Oneida County Taxpayers funds have been spent on ; Murnane Field The Utica Zoo The Utica Aud The Stanley Not to mention County taxpayer money being spent on putting sidewalks and other projects put in the city of Utica for a start. So what did the Oneida County Taxpayer from Camden, Florence, Vernon get in return. A: NOTHING Lets not talk parochialism here!! besides when the County money did go to the Zoo the animals werent even replaced when they died, I bet if the watering can that Hanna built was recycled the money recovered could buy half of a monkey. Larry I am not trying to start an argument with ya, but Oneida County money is being spent in the City of Utica. Parochialism will never end in this area because thats just the way it is, have you ever thought that if the County was considered "One" with One Police Force, Fire Department, DPW, Purchasing, and example would be Suffolk and Nassua County, I think this idea could benefit this area into being a regional economic force. However there are far too many Kingdoms in which the Kings wouldnt want to lose "their" courts! Lefty, I don't consider this an arguement, it's actually a healthy debate. I have never passed up a chance for good debate, lol. And probably to my fault, I also don't simply tell people what they want to hear. I respect their opinions, but will debate mine vigorously. I think StrikeSlip pretty much summed this up in a nutshell. Not sure what else to add. And he lives in New Hartford! The Zoo is being destroyed by the county. That was part of the water "regionilzation" deal. The County wanted our water so bad that they promised to take care of the Zoo and Auditorium. The money for the Aud comes from the Water Authority. The Stanley was a project mostly funded by State and private dollars, and is a place that mostly caters to suburban folk, not the inner city. Murnane field is a joke. Furthermore, when is the last time EDGE was in Utica? Why is the Utica name being ripped off everything while Rome keeps their identity (e.g. Red Cross, Chamber of Commerce, Water, etc.)? This is not a Rome v. Utica thing. I'm just using Rome as an example, as they have kept their identity while our "leaders" have allowed Utica's to be torn apart. How about the "Medicaid tax" that was supposed to be temporary? It's still there and NOT shared with either city. How about the unfair distrobution of sales tax? How about Utica actually paying a higher county tax than other municipalities due to having more people on "Social Services?" And...Why do the Chairman of the Board, Majority Leader, Minority Leader and County Executive even get a say in how money is spent on the sewage problems or who sits on the Water Authority? NONE of them live in the sewer district or water district! The culture up there has gone unchecked and unchallenged for too long. It's time the people wake up to the broken process here. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make him drink it. I didn't run to play the good old boy game. I ran to do something. But I can't do it alone. This is why we are looked down upon by the rest of the state and nation. Because the people buy into the stale old rehtoric, and whenever somoeone comes along and tries to change it, the people buy into the "parochial" or "troublemaker" garbage. Know what? I don't care anymore. I'm gonna continue to fight on, and if the people get rid of me, then so be it. I'm still very young and maybe it will be for the best. |
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Post by strikeslip on Mar 1, 2009 21:08:40 GMT -5
Larry, is it still the case that Utica pays a higher county tax because it has more people on social services? I had assumed that Oneida County joined the rest of the state and socialized those costs across the entire county. Why are the poor forced to support the poor while the wealthy are allowed to pay nothing by isolating themselves in New Hartford?
I knew that such was the case back in the 60s and it angered me. I remember listening to one couple brag about how they had just moved to New Hartford, had no municipal tax to pay, but they were still able to take advantage of all that Utica had to offer. The wealthy were able to escape having to pay for social services by merely moving a couple miles across the city line. And yet, economically and infrastructure wise, these same people still depended on Utica's existence.
Now that most of the money has left the city and services and facilities are in ruin, these same people look down their noses at Utica and Uticans and complain about how run down Utica is, how incompent its government is, and how unsafe it is. Of course it is all these things . . . How could Utica afford to be otherwise?
Now-a-days, people generally don't move to NH for lower taxes because those are fast disappearing as NH tries to duplicate what Utica once had. Now people move there for quality of life issues. But New Hartfordians need to acknowledge what occurred in the past, how their Town benefitted from Utica's existence, how it still does, and, now, need to return the favor.
Taking more from Utica is not only perpetuating a past wrong . . . it is immoral.
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Post by tanouryjr on Mar 1, 2009 22:06:32 GMT -5
Strike, you're right. This no longer happens, but it outraged me when I found out it ever happened at all. I guess I'm showing my youth here, but I didn't know about this until recently. I guess they stopped it a few years ago.
You summed up a lot of the biases against Utica. Utica pays the same tax rate as other areas, yet we also pay for all our own services. What exactly does Utica need the county for, with exception of them taking money from us? You said it best in one of your articles...why doesn't Utica become part of Herkimer County? Yet, for as little as we get for our county dollar, it seems to be an outrage and easy political target everytime we try to get something. Someone mentioned that Utica get money for the Historical Society...it's the ONEIDA COUNTY Historical Society. And they got a simple bond for $275,000 this year, and had to forego their $25,000 anual payment in order to get it. Some legislators questioned this, yet they don't say a word about over $50M spent at Griffiss while Griffiss loses over a Million per year. WOW.
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Post by strikeslip on Mar 2, 2009 7:51:43 GMT -5
If this were Virginia, Utica would not be part of any county. In Virginia, cities are independent.
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 2, 2009 8:22:16 GMT -5
If this were Virginia, Utica would not be part of any county. In Virginia, cities are independent. I wonder how these cities handle relations with their neighboring suburbs. How do they handle regional issues? The problem is that cities are going broke. Annual income of inhabitants is dropping as middle class homes are replaced by slums while businesses flee to the burbs. Neighboring counties will often be large enough to have their individual problems and successes homogenized to the extent that they present to each other as equals. But a failing city and a next-door suburb of relative wealth will always be a problem. That's why I agree with your thoughts about the need for a more regional treatment of resources and government, even a county government without local jurisdictions. Local government is a waste of money. Duplicative services. But in taking the logic farther, as I did in my note above, and in considering who has the money, we are really owned by Albany. |
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Post by frankcor on Mar 3, 2009 13:22:28 GMT -5
Someone mentioned that Utica get money for the Historical Society...it's the ONEIDA COUNTY Historical Society. And they got a simple bond for $275,000 this year, and had to forego their $25,000 anual payment in order to get it. I pretty much agree with everything you said. But for this little tidbit. Ahem ... How long has it been since they changed the name from Utica Historical Society? I don't mean to disparage their fine collection but it is almost entirely devoted to artifacts from Utica and the surrounding area. I suppose the Rome Historical Society could change it's name to the New York State Historical Society in an effort to start getting state funding but that would be rather presumptuous, n'est ce pas? Galactic Historical Society has a nice ring to it, too. Look, I'm not trying to stir up a parochial fight here. Personally, I'm pleased that we have two such historical gems as the museums in Utica and Rome to enjoy here. I'm also pleased that the Rome society has been able to maintain some independence from government funding. Approximately 1/6 of the annual budget comes from city support, the rest comes mostly from private individuals, memberships and foundations. They have received county funding as reimbursement for county programs they help administer (summer employment for teens, is one I recall) but there has been no direct county aid. So much for having all those Romans and Western Oneida County residents in power. |
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Post by strikeslip on Mar 3, 2009 19:44:55 GMT -5
Sheesh -- another "Utica" wiped away -- Didn't realize that when I joined. I'll have to tear up my membership card. At least they did not call it the "Mohawk Valley" historical society. |
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Post by frankcor on Mar 3, 2009 22:05:50 GMT -5
Don't feel bad strikeslip. They were named "Oneida Historical Society at Utica" when they were first founded.
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Strikeslip, I don't always agree with you on many topics but here I have to agree with you 100%. What you stated is probably the best that would benefit all the most. 
