$700 billion bailout SCAM!!!!!

[Swimmy]

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_markets

I'm sorry, but this is infuriating me. I should probably post this in the Steam Room, but I have nothing to hide from the rest of the public.

While it pains me to see an economic depression occur, I am nauseated that while I've been a responsible consumer, purchasing only within my spending limits, millions of greedy Americans will be rescued by my tax dollars.

When did it become my fault for a company to engage in ethically questionable lending practices to seduce people into purchasing variable rate mortgages for houses well outside their financial means? When did it become my fault for people who thought that with a VARIABLE rate mortgage they could afford a $250k house on a $30k salary? Did they seriously think the variable rate would decrease over time?! I fail to see the rocket science behind this to warrant labeling anyone innocent or unknowing in this situation.

I know I cannot afford, ever, a quarter million dollar house on my current salary. I'm not the smartest man on the planet. So how can so many people be so much dumber than me that the simply did not know this would be an inevitable?

I think the companies should be allowed to fail. They were stupid enough to engage in this flawed lending practice, but boast it as the best thing since sliced bread.

My tax dollars should not be spent toward bailing out these people. I will purposely vote against any candidate up for election who votes for this plan. I'd rather suffer a depression than let these people get away with stupidity.

McCain should be plastered as being too scared to debate. I like his candidacy more than Obama's, but he's wasting a perfect opportunity to debate Obama on an issue that is hot. So much for that. I know that he's trying to paint Obama as unAmerican if he doesn't respond, but this is the wrong time for such dirty politics.

And how arrogant of the president and the rest of the government to say that the government is the only entity with the "resources" available to consume all this debt. Those "resources" aren't limitless. Those "resources" are derived from one source, taxes!

Call me young, inexperienced, and ignorant. I do not care! Why should RESPONSIBLE Americans pay the price for the irresponsible ones?! I watched the President's address hoping he had a valid reason, but was sorely disappointed that he could not offer one. The Democrats are also seemingly at a loss, but this is up their alley.

Ok, I'm done with my rant, let the fallout begin.

[dgriffin]

Swimmy, I share your emotions, but as a retiree with a portfolio, I am indeed interested in the government stepping in to help. Call me selfish. The best outcome ... and it is certainly not likely to happen without a solid contract of sorts with provisions to protect the taxpayer ... is for the fed's "loan" of a trillion dollars (which it doesn't have) to bear fruit and pay itself back. If the market is saved and begins to grow again, that could happen. But only if the sharks who engineered this disaster are kept from again stealing us blind.
How did this happen? The companies kept bundling and re-bundling debt packages until those who ought to know better began to lose track of the tremendous amount of bad debt risk incorporated in the loans. The regulators were asleep at the switch, and probably in bed with the bankers. The risk came from really ridiculous lending practices, as you pointed out. (Why do I never see old cars on the Thruway? Why is a kid two months out of high school working at McDonalds and buying a $35,000 car? What's the difference between a risky mortage of 80% years ago and a recent offering of a 110 percent mortgage? I didn't mistype that ... 110%! From a down payment to no money down to "we'll pay YOU to go into debt.)
But the deed is done. If the government doesn't back this deal, the stock market could implode, the pundits tell us. Is that true? How the hell would I know? How would anyone know, really? But the scary thing about the stock market is that if it sounds bad, the stock drops, and so it is bad.
What also bothers me about this is where the money from us will go. Many of the creditors are hardly our bosom buddies in the world. But they're in the the game, too, and we use their money all the time.

[dan]

I didn't snopes this, but I don't think I have to :-)

It'll never work. It seems to make sense and we'll have none of that!


THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GEAT PLAN TO ME. WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Sounds crazy but sounds good.

The Birk Economic Recovery Plan We Deserve It Dividend

I am against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I am in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting
every man, woman and child.
So, 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax-free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But, it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife have $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads.
Put away money for college - it'll be there.
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car.
Create jobs.
Invest in the market - capital drives growth.
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves.
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else.
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we are going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead
of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that
is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we are going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S
Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here is my rationale.
We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But, can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5
Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,
Birk
T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for
a laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion.

[Clipper]

I guess it would never work Dan because the greedy pockets would not get the majority of the money, and those that would have to vote for it, are those that are on the list of greedy pockets.

Somewhere along the line, big business has taken away the rights of the common folk, and steered our country into disasters such as this. Somewhere along the line, our government leaders slowly(or possibly rapidly) managed to "buy" a democracy and take away the rights of the common man. Somewhere along the line, the halls of government based on "of the people, by the people and for the people" has become the government "of the middle class, by the affluent, for the affluent."

Elections have become battles of rhetoric designed to project an image of caring for the middle class and the majority. Once elected, these politicians simply join their rich comrades in DC and have their way with OUR money and OUR lives. The cost of running a successful campaign has made it a matter of whoever has the most money to spend will successfully "buy" the office being run for.

[denise]

My husband said that Bill Clinton was on Letterman a few nights ago explaining why he thought the government should step in to help. I didn't watch it the show, but my husband said the Clinton did a great job explaining the whys and wherefores.

[rrogers40]

Sept 25, 2008 8:42:02 GMT -5 denise said:

My husband said that Bill Clinton was on Letterman a few nights ago explaining why he thought the government should step in to help. I didn't watch it the show, but my husband said the Clinton did a great job explaining the whys and wherefores.

Thats the problem with this- there not talking. We have no clue what is going on or where this is coming from.

Personally my plan is that we should spur investment into those companies that need help by removing capital gains taxes and giving people tax incentives to invest. Or maybe even a matching fund type of thing- you put 10 billion in and we will put 10 billion in.

[dgriffin]

Sept 25, 2008 8:40:24 GMT -5 Clipper said:

Elections have become battles of rhetoric designed to project an image of caring for the middle class and the majority.

Clipper, you got that right!

[lucy]

You know what is the big deal if they do postpone the debate to next week? Is it really a big deal?

[Clipper]

McCain has the right idea. Although some feel he is avoiding the debate, I believe he is doing what a senator should be doing. He is a senator first and a candidate second. Obama seems to forget that, as did Hillary Clinton, from the first day she took office in NY State and left to promote her own agenda.

Obama belongs in the senate chamber, representing the people that elected him. If he can't represent the people of Illinois, how can he expect us to elect him to represent the citizens of the whole damn country?

As far as the election being close. Where does that little tidbit fit into the equation? We have a fiscal crisis of monumental magnitude. We don't give a shit about campaign speeches and such. Take care of what is happening now, instead of worrying about campaigning. If McCain ins in DC and in the senate chamber, he is not out getting a leg up on Obama.

To me the campaign and it's issues are all bullshit. Neither one of them is going to be able to accomplish even 1/4 of what they say they will. Campaign rhetoric is strictly hot air.

In my estimation, if we could have ONE debate, and each candidate could give ONE speech, outlining his platform in a realistic manner, we could have the election tomorrow and time on the campaign trail would be a moot point.

This so called bail out "Scam" in my estimation is a necessary evil. It is not all the fault of the administration. It is the fault of a bunch of crooked damn CEO's, and it is not a partisan issue for which one party or the other should shoulder the entire blame.

It is my understanding that the bail out is a loan. All I would hope for is for the government to insist that not one frigging dime of profit is taken by any of these companies, over and above a reasonable salary, until all the loans have been satisfied. CEO's should be under a government microscope to insure that it doesn't happen again. CEO's should be limited in what they can claim for retirement packages and severance packages. CEO's should be limited by law as to what they can claim as bonuses. Everyone of those involved in the present dabacle should be jailed. They are heartless, cruel and greedy felons that deserve to sit behind bars instead of retiring to the Caribbean with our money, while we pay for their idioscy and greed.

I will reserve judgement on the bail out plan until I see what it will consist of and how it will be structured.

We have no choice but to bail out those companies because of the devestation it would cause to the American way of life, if we allowed them to fail and flounder. We have to bail them out, but we don't have to give them a prize for screwing the investors that trusted them.

I also find it hard to sympathize with the folks that took out those mortgages on homes they could not afford. They gambled, they used very poor financial judgement, and they lost. They deserve to lose their homes. If I lived in a $250K home and only made $30K a year, I would expect that I was going to have a problem paying an 8 or 9 hundred dollar mortgage payment. We should not reward that kind of stupidity by "saving their homes." Let them lose their home and find one that they can AFFORD TO PAY FOR!!

The bail out is a necessity. I only wait to see what the terms will be, while reserving judgment. I hope for all of our sakes, it works.

[dan]

I've been inundated with e-mails telling me the math is wrong for the above post.

........I'm sticking my head back in the sand before it gets blown off..........

[Clipper]

Haha! You didn't do a "Clipper" did ya???

I will tell ya a secret Dan. Sneakers don't taste bad if ya marinate them and cook them slowly.

[dan]

I've had my ass kicked so many times this afternoon I look like Lon Chaney Sr.

[Clipper]

LOL! I know the feeling well. I still don't know how to use snopes effectively, and still take a bite out of my shoe at least once a week.

Sneakers aren't bad, but the ones with the flashing lights in them are a little disconcerting when you are trying to sleep, while your belly is flashing like the four ways on a pick up truck.

Oh yeah, the high top ones give me heart burn.

[dgriffin]

Well, I hear there was a breakthrough Saturday night regarding the bailout. That's good news for those of us invested in the market, I guess.
But I wonder what else it means. Part of the deal will require limits on executive compensation for the bailed out companies. But if the government can exercise that kind of control over the operation of the lenders in whhich they're investing, I guess they can stipulate other things, like more mortgage money to the "poor" and less to the "rich." We may indeed be creeping closer to socialism. Do you think? What areas of the economy and people's live could you control if you owned much of the mortgage money in the country?

[Clipper]

One of the cable news networks this morning was talking about a CEO of the latest bank to fail. He is getting some ridiculous golden parachute, something like 19 million I think ( I only caught part of the conversation) and he only had served for a matter of days as
CEO before the failure.

THAT is the shit that needs to stop.

I have mixed emotions about the amount of involvement in private business government should have, but in this case, it has become necessary to step in to save the entire way of life of many of us Americans, and to protect our hard earned moneys invested.

Government should not "run" these businesses, but it has become obvious that some businesses need to be "regulated" to prevent such crap from happening in the future.

This particular problem has become a political football, and blame is being pointed at the administration by the democrats, while I believe that the blame goes to the irresponsible and greedy CEO's and to treasury, the fed, and to our senators and such on both sides of the aisle for allowing it to grow to this proportion before stepping in.

It is tragic in magnitude, but not attributed to one party or another, other than the banking industry's greedy boards and executives.