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Post by Disgusted-Daily on Jul 31, 2008 11:53:10 GMT -5
www.uticaod.com/news/x544097497/New-Hartford-school-project-back-within-cost-estimatesHere we go again. NEW TAXFORD at their finest again. The village residents should eat a higher percentage of the taxes instead of making people who live in the town absorb these increases for luxury's they are not entitled to. When is the spending and construction going to stop. With the economics of today and they still expect the same from us as they did in the past. It's nothing more than a huge game between districts to be able to claim who has more. For the first time I am all for eliminating small politics and going for a consolidation of the Villages and Towns.
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Post by Clipper on Jul 31, 2008 13:01:06 GMT -5
NHcitizen remarks about the "village" versus the "town." Obviously isforgetting that part of NY Mills is in New Hartford, and that some taxpayers for the NH School system, DON'T have an option to send their kids to NH schools, and most likely would not want to if they could, but still have their tax money going into the capital projects and other debatable endeavors in New Hartford.
I also perceive a tone of superiority in the remark about Brookfield. I imagine that Brookfield students receive an education that is equal to NH students, seeing as how schools adhere to state and federal standards of education and curriculum.
If I were younger, and had children of school age, and was given a choice of living in NH or Brookfield, I would choose Brookfield. My children would be educated in a more austere environment, and would be among the children of hard working rural folks, and not in the middle of a simmering pot of political stew. My kids would be educated to be humble and appreciative, and not be caught in a torrent of questionable issues such as the school district "donating land" to a business park. Not caught in an atmosphere where parents spend more time involved in controversy than in raising their children.
I wonder if the people paying NH school taxes and residing in NY Mills had any input, or will receive any benefit from the school district being involved in the controversial land donation for a road in the business park.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Jul 31, 2008 18:20:10 GMT -5
Some things I'm not following:
I thought from the time we were house shopping many years ago that school district taxes, town taxes and village taxes (if any) were all separate. I thought that one house we looked at which was in the town of NH but NYMschool district paid NYM school taxes and NH town taxes & maybe NYM village taxes.
I would also disagree with Clipper that just because two things meet the same minimum standard they are equivalent. Alex Rodriguez and the cashier at Price Chopper both make at least minimum wage but they don't have equivalent pay.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Jul 31, 2008 18:23:45 GMT -5
To return to the link that started the thread, I don't see how anyone can be surprised or upset that bids from 2008 exceed estimates made in 2006.
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Post by Clipper on Jul 31, 2008 18:32:14 GMT -5
Gee Clarence. I don't know why you can't follow my misconceived post. I don't know what I was thinking. Of course your school taxes go to the district that you live in. Sorry for the confusion. LOL.
I guess I get a little incensed with the political foolishness that goes on in NH, and am inclined to offer sympathy to anyone in New York Mills that pays taxes to the town of NH. I doubt that they get equal distribution of improvements for the taxes they pay, as compared to the village of NH.
Sorry for the mistake. Getting senile I guess, haha.
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 19:34:31 GMT -5
I like the notion that there are no "luxuries" in New Hartford High School. Seems a lot more luxurious than when I went to school there. And if it's not that luxurious then why the high school taxes? Why is the school wasting money on a roadway for the new business park development if the school does not have any luxuries. If nhcitizen feels that NHHS has no luxuries, perhaps he should take a walk through Proctor, maybe send his kids there instead? Then I'd like to see him say that New Hartford does not have any luxuries. It's a 5-star hotel by comparison. I do not intend to mock or degrade Proctor. I have many friends who graduated from Proctor and have achieved more than most new hartford graduates from my era. And it's no secret that new hartford sends its troubled kids to proctor to mask the many problems within the school halls.
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Post by nhcitizen18 on Aug 1, 2008 16:45:26 GMT -5
Well you baited me so I guess I'll have to bite. This will also be my final post on these forums since conversing here is just not worthwile to me anymore; so if you admins feel the need go ahead and delete my account. 1) I will never understand the term New Taxford. Look at the column all the way to the right in the link below. This describes the tax on true rate. This is the actual tax rate that is computed when you adjust for the equalization rate (which exists because not all towns reassess at the same time) and is the only way you can compare tax rates among school districts. You will notice that the tax on true for New Hartford is about middle of the pack -less than Rome, Utica, Westmoreland and others. So if New Hartford is taxed highly then the rest of the surrounding communities are in far worse shape by comparison. By the way the numbers indicate how much you pay in taxes per $1,000 of assessed value. www.orps.state.ny.us/cfapps/MuniPro/osc/county/oscSchooltaxlevy.cfm2) As indicated by Clipper's post people far to often pass judgement on school districts when they are ignorant of the actual facts. Thankfully Todd corrected Clipper on this one point, but there are so many examples of people not having a clue that its really to annoying to even try and discuss anymore. 3) New Hartford Senior High is old and run down. The facilities at Proctor, Waterville, Clinton and other local districts are far more modern and up to date since they are very new structures that were built in recent bond issues, while for a long time New Hartford has let its facilities...particularly its high school classrooms and auditorium deteriorate to a very sad state. 4) The majority of voters in New Hartford approved the capital expenditure plan for the AAA project at a certain cost. School construction usually begins 3-4 years after voter approval of a project due to the hurdles that the Stae of New York makes you jump through. The NH administrators anticipated what costs would be in 2006 when some of the construction would not actually begin until 2010. Between 2006 and 2010 construction costs have soared (just as one example the cost to transport construction materials due to the price of diesel fuel is just one reason for the increase). Could any of you have predicted $5.00 per gallon diesel fuel 3 years ago? Is it really fair to do what Arkangel did and indicate that school administrators should have known that diesel would be $5.00 per gallon when nobody else did? The administration did the responsible thing. They altered their project and played hardball with contractors to make sure the project they built would be under the approved budget. Compare that with teh last Utica School project where they "lost" some of the money and ran out of money before the project was completed. The project is not as extensive as they first thought it would be, but it will be under budget and show responsibility to the taxpayers. For the life of me if Arkangel or any of you were in their shoes I really wish you would tell me what you would have done differently when confronted with that situation. 5) We all have our pet peeves about government spending. You all seem to dislike spending on schools and children very much. I personally detest the senior citizen welfare that we call social security and medicare. It boggles my mind why people can't be held responsible for saving for their own retirement but instead rely on government handouts that come directly from my paycheck and into their pocket. I don't know about you, but the total amount of FICA and Medicaire that comes out of my paycheck before the end of the year FAR exceeds what I pay in school taxes every year...and I get absolutely NOTHING for the money that goes to senior citizens who seem very happy to take my money, but couldn't care less when it comes time for them to pay property taxes for my children. That is the definition of selfishness and a "world revolves around me" attitude. It galls me that some seniors have the audacity to say that about kids when so many of them exhibit that attitude far more than any children ever have. If there is ever justice one day, I will have the right to go to the polls and vote NO on social security and medicaire. So in a nutshell that is it. My political views are contradictory to most of yours and we just have to leave it at that. I hope your viewpoints on education are never in the majority, but sadly your views on social security seem to be at the moment. Good luck to you all in whatever endeavors you choose, despite our differences I hold no personal animosity toward any of you and wish you the best of luck. Take care. |
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Post by rrogers40 on Aug 1, 2008 17:07:58 GMT -5
If you have different view points why do you leave?- Thats what boards like these interesting- who wants to hear the same ideas and points over and over again? Yea people might post things that are wrong, but that gives you the chance to educate them and show them the correct answers. Everyone has there speciaIf you have different view points why do you leave?- Thats what boards like these interesting- who wants to hear the same ideas and points over and over again? Yea people might post things that are wrong, but that gives you the chance to educate them and show them the correct answers. Everyone has there speciality- but every wants to comment on everything so theres bound to be some inaccurate info out there and as someone who holds a speciality its your job to make sure the info you know about is presented correctly.lity- but every wants to comment on everything so theres bound to be some inaccurate info out there and as someone who holds a speciality its your job to make sure the info you know about is presented correctly.
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Post by Swimmy on Aug 1, 2008 20:57:12 GMT -5
Well you baited me so I guess I'll have to bite. This will also be my final post on these forums since conversing here is just not worthwile to me anymore; so if you admins feel the need go ahead and delete my account. 1) I will never understand the term New Taxford. Look at the column all the way to the right in the link below. This describes the tax on true rate. This is the actual tax rate that is computed when you adjust for the equalization rate (which exists because not all towns reassess at the same time) and is the only way you can compare tax rates among school districts. You will notice that the tax on true for New Hartford is about middle of the pack -less than Rome, Utica, Westmoreland and others. So if New Hartford is taxed highly then the rest of the surrounding communities are in far worse shape by comparison. By the way the numbers indicate how much you pay in taxes per $1,000 of assessed value. www.orps.state.ny.us/cfapps/MuniPro/osc/county/oscSchooltaxlevy.cfmAnd how many of those other school districts are spending money on non-academic, non-education related projects? I'm referring to the school spending school tax money to improve a roadway up by 840, you know so that the Hartford will not make true on its threat to leave the area? Also, how many of those districts raised their property assessments to put 25% of the property taxes collected toward school funding and also proposed a budget that still had a 5% increase? How many other school districts pay for teachers to go on year long sabbaticals? I know several teachers who have not taught past their first few years in New Hartford. One particular teacher spent most of last year in Africa, teaching. This is not college, this is high school. Teachers wanting to go on paid sabbatical should become college professors, or fund the sabbatical themselves (just like every other area school district requires of its teachers). We're supposed to be putting the kids first, right? So why waste taxpayer money on paid teaching sabbaticals that have no direct effect, and I argue no positive effect whatsoever, for the students. Especially when many of those teachers do not return to the new hartford classrooms to share their new gained perspectives with their students and other teachers. How many of those towns and cities tax the municipality's entire citizenship to pay for a few? For example, the town is considering having the entire town pay for sewer extensions to two property owners. Ever hear of that anywhere else? New Hartford Town Officials have taken more BANs than it can generate in tax revenue. The town has to try and make up for its enormous debt by then BONDing. How do you think the town will repay this debt? Taxes that the town residents have to pay. Did you know that because New Hartford has BAN-ed and Bonded so much it is practically bankrupt. Further, I think your reasoning is flawed. A house in Utica assessed at the same value a house in new hartford pays considerably less in property taxes than in New Hartford. I don't need any "true rate" for comparison when there is that. 2) As indicated by Clipper's post people far to often pass judgement on school districts when they are ignorant of the actual facts. Thankfully Todd corrected Clipper on this one point, but there are so many examples of people not having a clue that its really to annoying to even try and discuss anymore. Can't argue with that. So many people think way outside the realm of logic and take everything in such a poorly extreme manner that it really is not worth trying to discuss anymore. 3) New Hartford Senior High is old and run down. The facilities at Proctor, Waterville, Clinton and other local districts are far more modern and up to date since they are very new structures that were built in recent bond issues, while for a long time New Hartford has let its facilities...particularly its high school classrooms and auditorium deteriorate to a very sad state. Have you walked through the main foyer? Or the main entrance? The "surplus" of money from redoing the athletic field for the third time in recent years went to re-styling the entire main entryway. Why? Yet strangely enough, the school cannot find the money to spend on the auditorium. The entire school infrastructure is not deteriorated. We must walk through different new hartford high schools. Even the pool area has seen major improvements since I swam there. New Hartford still has one of the best language labs in the region. Unless I'm mistaken, New Hartford is the ONLY high school in the county with such a facility to help its students learn foreign languages. (At one time anyway, but things could have changed from the last time I inquired into it). 4) The majority of voters in New Hartford approved the capital expenditure plan for the AAA project at a certain cost. School construction usually begins 3-4 years after voter approval of a project due to the hurdles that the Stae of New York makes you jump through. The NH administrators anticipated what costs would be in 2006 when some of the construction would not actually begin until 2010. Between 2006 and 2010 construction costs have soared (just as one example the cost to transport construction materials due to the price of diesel fuel is just one reason for the increase). Could any of you have predicted $5.00 per gallon diesel fuel 3 years ago? Is it really fair to do what Arkangel did and indicate that school administrators should have known that diesel would be $5.00 per gallon when nobody else did? The administration did the responsible thing. They altered their project and played hardball with contractors to make sure the project they built would be under the approved budget. Compare that with teh last Utica School project where they "lost" some of the money and ran out of money before the project was completed. The project is not as extensive as they first thought it would be, but it will be under budget and show responsibility to the taxpayers. For the life of me if Arkangel or any of you were in their shoes I really wish you would tell me what you would have done differently when confronted with that situation. Arkangel was trying to point out that had more intelligence been put into it, it was fairly reasonable to see such increases in costs. With oil companies turning in record profits for the past 5 years -- consecutively; with gas prices ever increasing -- unless you've been living under a rock for the past 6 years -- it's fairly reasonable to project gas reaching $5 per gallon. In fact, I'm surprised it was not higher based on the projections at the time. National experts under projected for the 3rd year in a row. Yet, despite all this easily accessible information regarding rising gas prices and other price increases, new hartford officials failed to draw the same conclusions, and they had experts working for them. When I made my projections, I did not have such a luxury. 5) We all have our pet peeves about government spending. You all seem to dislike spending on schools and children very much. I personally detest the senior citizen welfare that we call social security and medicare. It boggles my mind why people can't be held responsible for saving for their own retirement but instead rely on government handouts that come directly from my paycheck and into their pocket. I don't know about you, but the total amount of FICA and Medicaire that comes out of my paycheck before the end of the year FAR exceeds what I pay in school taxes every year...and I get absolutely NOTHING for the money that goes to senior citizens who seem very happy to take my money, but couldn't care less when it comes time for them to pay property taxes for my children. That is the definition of selfishness and a "world revolves around me" attitude. It galls me that some seniors have the audacity to say that about kids when so many of them exhibit that attitude far more than any children ever have. If there is ever justice one day, I will have the right to go to the polls and vote NO on social security and medicaire. I'm not going to touch upon an issue that has been an integral part of every major civilization since the Romans to take care of the elderly. But I will disagree with you about your grossly general conclusion that I do not like spending on education. Quite the contrary, I fully support spending on EDUCATION. But there is no need to spend so much on athletic fields every few years. Why? So that new hartford can claim to have the best? Why has the swimming pool been neglected?! When I attended New Hartford, the football field had three make overs. Then after I left, it's had at least two more. That's not where the money should be spent. It should be spent on education. You know programs promoting the study of math, science, arts, music, history, etc. Funding for students to go on field trips to places like the Smithsonian Museum. Or funding to pay for students to attend academic programs like the National Leadership Program. Yet there is little to none for that. Now if you want to put forth a project for those, I would not object so much. But redoing an athletic field so frequently when not necessary (unless you believe the lies) is not my idea of intelligent spending. So, I guess that's how the concept of New Taxford came about. Why worry about paying for something when we have taxpayers to support our insatiable spending habits and illogical spending choices. Sorry to see you go. Your commentary always makes for interesting reading, even if I don't always agree with it. And lately, we've been disagreeing quite often. |
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Post by Swimmy on Aug 1, 2008 21:25:45 GMT -5
I hope the admins do NOT delete your account so that you may return here if you so decide.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 1, 2008 21:54:54 GMT -5
Well, NH citizen, I am sorry to see you go. You don't have to agree with a person's politics to post or discuss an issue.
If you find us offensive, that is fine. I am sure there are others on here that side with you on NH issues and also others that don't like me personally either. I personally make no bones about the fact that I think most of the Town and Village politicians are a bunch of pompous asses, and I have no great love for NH period.
As for social security, I worked 46 years before retiring, and most of that time, I worked both a government civil service job, with no social security taken out, and a couple of part time jobs, to the tune of another $10K or $15K driving tractor trailers and buses on weekends. I paid my dues, and I started receiving my retirement from civil service at 55. This coming February, I will start drawing my social security, and I will think of you every time it hits my bank account.
You do have some interesting points to make at times. I don't have to agree with them. E Wiatr was enough to give people a bad taste in their mouth when it came to NH politics, and school board issues. He signed up here on clipper's corner, and lasted only a short time, and then disappeared. I guess he didn't find what he was looking for here either.
As far as older people not caring about kids, my ex-wife and I took in foster kids and gave them a shot at happiness and taught them to value an education. We also had "fresh air kids" from NY City, every summer for several years running. I was asked many years later to give away one of our foster girls at her wedding. Believe me, nobody cares more for children than I do. I donate school supplies for underprivileged kids, and buy a couple of winter jackets every year for the "coats for kids" campaign. When you have raised your own kids and turn your efforts to nurturing OTHER kids that need nurturing, you will truly understand what it is to care for kids, and not just your own.
I am sorry that you feel incompatible with the politics of this forum. I will not delete your account. You are welcome to come back and post anytime you like. Sorry if you feel personally offended by disagreement with your stance on issues. Just for your information, YOU can delete your account if you like. I have no reason to delete it. You have done nothing to violate any rules. don't take life so seriously, and don't take US so personal.
At 33 you are just a puppy. You can take some pointers from "old people" on child rearing and caring about kids. Your opinions and viewpoints will change many times before you are my age, and in the mean time you may even move away from NH and all this will be redundant. Sorry to lose your inputs and participation. If you are able to find a forum where you are surrounded by only "like minded" people, won't it be a little boring? I read a lot of blogs and forum pages, and I have yet to find one that will fill your bill, other than a couple of NH blogs that don't offer much discussion, just facts and informational posts. Sorry we aren't able to fulfill your needs in a chat forum format. No hard feelings and God bless you and your family.
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Post by frankcor on Aug 6, 2008 14:19:15 GMT -5
Social Security is a federal entitlement program designed to make people vote for Democrats. It should be repealed at the first possible moment.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 6, 2008 15:26:42 GMT -5
Could you wait until after I die?
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Post by Clipper on Aug 6, 2008 18:23:49 GMT -5
Me too Frank! PS: I would not vote for a democrat in this upcoming election if my ass was on fire and Obama was holding the only fire extinguisher!
Maybe after this election the dems can pull their panties out of their cracks, and get back to legislating instead of spending their every waking hour bashing the administration. Ever since the 2000 recount in Florida, the democrats have done nothing but suck sour grapes, and show the ignorant side of their asses.
The contempt for Bush has caused them to lose sight of their true mission in government, and idiots like Nancy Pelosi have gotten to a point of making me want to regurgitate when I see her face on TV.
I have never been a partisan person, but the dems have made me ashamed to even think of voting with them on anything. I will be glad if we can get back to the "ordinary" level of mudslinging and party politics instead of the "extreme and dangerous" mudslinging against the president that goes on now, with troops in combat.
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