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Post by dgriffin on Jul 31, 2008 15:18:56 GMT -5
Lucy, these are reasonable procedures if we want to keep kids safe. So, although we don't know all the circumstances, it's hard to believe in this day and age that the guy and the 7 year old were able to just wander off.
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 19:54:48 GMT -5
I also had that thought. Why would you allow your kids to be in the yard alone with this guy, much less go for a "walk" with him. I mean, be real! This guy has been locked up and sexually dePRIVED for a period of time. Would that not make one wary that he might also be dePRAVED?? I am a firm believer that child molesters should have their nuts removed as part of the criminal process. If they win on appeal, give them back their nuts! IN A CANNING JAR, PICKLED IN FORMALDEHYDE! (I know. I am not being fair to the guy. He DOES have a right to be PROVEN GUILTY before such a radical surgery is performed!) I was having a conversation about this today with a few defense attorneys. I thought it was interesting that they point out that despite how heinous the crime is, the perpetrator is still a human being. According to some attorneys who defend sex offenders, if you take the time to get to know sex offenders' histories, one learns that often these sex offenders have been abused themselves; therefore, it's all they know. Kind of dove tails into the environment makes the person theory. Not that a sex offender's history of being abused excuses the behavior, but it should remind people that the sex offender is still a human being. Believe it or not, some sex offenders have asked to be castrated because they know they will strike again otherwise. But the courts have refused to honor such requests. Instead we pass laws such as NY's that allows for civil confinement hearings for sex offenders who still pose a threat to society after their sentence is completed. As for this guy, he had no history of committing sex offenses. While you can place blame on the parents, from my understanding the parents entrusted their children's safety in the hands of family friends. If there is to be any blame, it is the family friends who should be scrutinized for allowing the kids to play with a strange person. Unless they knew him and had no reason to believe that he was capable of hurting children. |
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 19:57:01 GMT -5
When something involves a child I believe in the death penalty. The U.S. Supreme Court disagrees. I think it was Louisiana that had a law calling for life imprisonment (or the death penalty, I can't remember exactly) for sex offenders where the victim is a child. The Court struck it down on 8th amendment grounds. |
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 20:01:20 GMT -5
Talk about castrating sex offenders may display a fundamental misunderstanding about rape and similar crimes. Rape is not a sex crime. It is a crime of ultimate power and control. The perp needs to be put away for good. For most rape cases, I agree it is a matter of the rapist's absolute control over the victim. However, in child molestation cases, it isn't necessarily always about control as it is about a flawed sex drive involving children. Pedophiles often cannot control their urges. That is why NY passed those laws to allow for the civil confinement of sex offenders who still pose a danger to themselves and to society after their criminal sentence is satisfied. |
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 20:04:04 GMT -5
Lucy, these are reasonable procedures if we want to keep kids safe. So, although we don't know all the circumstances, it's hard to believe in this day and age that the guy and the 7 year old were able to just wander off. Is it hard to believe? What if he said, "let's play hide and seek, I'll go hide in the woods and you kids try to find me after counting to 10"? To everyone else, he may have appeared to have left, and then when the kids disappeared, thought, "well kids will be kids." After interning in the DA's office once, I have to disagree and say that it happens more frequently than I'd like to admit. |
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Post by lucy on Jul 31, 2008 21:12:13 GMT -5
Swimmy you are full of knowledge...... It just angers me, in all honesty if things have happened to that person growing up then wouldn't one think I didn't like that done to me so I wouldn't do that to someone else???
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 21:42:20 GMT -5
You would think that. But how many times have you done something or said something and realized it is the exact same thing your parents would say or do? Something that as a child you swore to God you would never do.
I remember this past winter yelling as some swimmers I was assistant coaching for doing a very very stupid thing. Afterward, I realized that the words I used were verbatim from my parents. The same words that I swore I would never use. My parents got quite a laugh out of it when my brother re-created the whole chain of events.
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Post by lucy on Jul 31, 2008 21:55:16 GMT -5
Saying things and doing things are two different things. I get what you are saying but if its something that is bad that was done to you why would you inflict the same pain to another person? I say things that I also swore I would never say to my child that my mom or grandma would say to me. For an example When I was growing up my mom would get really mad and at times I took the brunt of the punishment during those times I didn't even do anything wrong she was just angry all the time. That is something that I swore I would never do to my child, because I don't her to ever feel the way I would feel when my mom would slap me around. Sometimes I bring it up to my mom about the things that she did and she doesn't like to talk about it and I think that she feels guilty and bad. It's just something that has taken sometime for me to get over. Don't get me wrong I belive in punishing but not beating. It would just break my heart if I did that to my child, and her feeling the way I felt growing up. I am a mom but I also want that mother/daughter relationship that I don't have with my mom. My family wasn't into hugging and all of that, every day 100 times a day I give my daughter a hug and a kiss, I never ever want her to feel unloved.
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 31, 2008 22:04:55 GMT -5
Good point. I don't have children yet so I don't have any specifics I could share. I was trying to make an analogy that doing bad things to others that were done to you is similar to saying certain things with certain mannerisms that said to you. I have read some studies that theorize that those who were abused as children are at great risk to become abusers themselves. That's what I was going on. I guess I made a poor analogy.
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Post by Ralph on Aug 1, 2008 1:30:38 GMT -5
Not a poor analogy Swimmy, just not enough life experiences to see where some of us are coming from.
Till you get another ten or twenty years on ya and a few kids down the road........well then there will still be someone that will have more experience than you!!! LOL!!!
It's a good analogy for some habits, traits and behaviors such as you are referring to. But when you get into other areas it has a tendency to change.
My Mom and step dad were basically alcoholics, but I grew up to appreciate a few good drinks........and stop. I hate being drunk, hate drunk people even more. And it's been proven that alcoholism can be an inherited trait.
There are just some people that are wired differently......good, bad or indifferent...they are.
Some folks are happy-go-lucky dummies (sorry, not PC, but just being truthful), some may be autistic, ADHD, ADD, bi-polar, schizo, whatever, they live normal and most of the time productive lives.............and then some are wired so bad as to be just plain "wrong".
Serial killers, pedophiles, etc.
You can't change them, you can't cure them, and unlike others who we tend to label as just being "mentally handicapped", cannot function as "real people" in our society in any conceivable capacity, but are able to hide undetected for years.
But eventually it comes out.
These are the folks that should be locked away in little cells with the doors welded shut...........or just taken out and shot, period.
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Post by lucy on Aug 1, 2008 7:17:09 GMT -5
Ralph you explained it better, I agree 100 percent with you.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 1, 2008 16:34:35 GMT -5
Regarding the point that the perp is a human being. Although it is difficult to feel any sympathy for him, I need to remember that if we want a democracy, we need to honor everyone's civil and constitutional rights. If that means a few more perps are running around the streets, then I need to keep an ever watchful eye out so that both my children and my rights remain safe.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 1, 2008 16:37:18 GMT -5
Swimmy wrote:
That's just it. My 7 y.o. daughter wouldn't be outside playing with a 21 year old young man, especially one who just got out of jail.
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Post by Swimmy on Aug 1, 2008 21:08:23 GMT -5
Aren't you assuming facts not in evidence? Do we know that the family friends were aware that this guy was on parole for robbery? Perhaps you might not, but what if the 21 year old young man was a trusted and respected person? What if he was a neighbor you knew since he was 10? I take offense to such a gross generalization that all 21 year old men are pedophiles. I've babysat for my neighbors' children throughout my college career. What are you trying to imply about me? Seriously. I'm really offended by that remark.
And to play the equality card. What about 21 year old women? They may not be as violent as men, but they are just as capable of molesting children. There are so many stories about female teachers sleeping with their students.
Would you also not let your 7 y.o. daughter play with a 21 year old young woman? Especially one who just got out of jail?
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 1, 2008 22:03:02 GMT -5
Swimmy, I'm flummoxed. I don't know what I meant! You attorneys are good at getting us old guys all confused. But I do know that rather than let my 7 y.o. daughter play with a 21 y.o. woman, I'd give the daughter to my wife and I'd go out and play with the 21 y.o. woman!
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