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Post by dgriffin on Jul 18, 2008 1:09:07 GMT -5
Swimmy, I think you and I are in the same boat, just different perspectives. No, I don't think Albany approves every corporate investment decision. IBM, as an example, would have great leeway within its own decision process as to where in the US or within a particular state it pumped money into facilities. But remember, they negotiated with the state for at least a $140 million "kickback" as reported. There may have been other unknown incentives. Treatment of taxable inventories comes to mind, as does labor law legislation. So, yes, the state has the power to influence these decisions by what it can offer the company in return for locating where the state leaders want the new facility.
OK, nuff said.
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Post by Swimmy on Jul 18, 2008 7:59:28 GMT -5
Wow, and I thought I was up late! lol! hahahaha
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 18, 2008 14:38:53 GMT -5
It's hard to sleep when the such weighty matters are abroad in the night!! Actually, I got up for the usual and couldn't fall back asleep. BTW, here's an article about "why Albany?" from 2002. It's pretty apparent in the article why Albany is getting all the attention, making it difficult for other New York State communities to compete. New York Times: Albany No Longer a Secret In High-Tech Chip World tinyurl.com/58v2v5 |
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Post by strikeslip on Jul 18, 2008 18:02:22 GMT -5
Dave felt sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. Sorry . . .I will never feel sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. He is the same "sap" that engineered Utica's stupid sale of its revenue generating water supply system to a regional water authority that now wants to send water outside the greater Utica region.
He's also the same sap who I heard 3 or four years ago say at a Genesis meeting that North Carolina was NOT our competition. Totally amazing and speaking volumes of his own incompetence.
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Post by tanouryjr on Jul 18, 2008 19:25:32 GMT -5
Dave felt sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. Sorry . . .I will never feel sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. He is the same "sap" that engineered Utica's stupid sale of its revenue generating water supply system to a regional water authority that now wants to send water outside the greater Utica region. He's also the same sap who I heard 3 or four years ago say at a Genesis meeting that North Carolina was NOT our competition. Totally amazing and speaking volumes of his own incompetence. Pretty interesting, Strike. I would like to hear more about his involvement in stealing/giving away our water. Subsequently creating yet another unaccountable authority. |
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 18, 2008 22:56:30 GMT -5
Dave felt sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. Sorry . . .I will never feel sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. I said that? I've GOT to start taking my meds on time! |
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Post by Ralph on Jul 19, 2008 0:50:53 GMT -5
LOL Boomer!!!
I did the same thing during my campaign, probably why I didn't get elected........too much boat rocking.
Wish I could take credit for Larry learning something from me, but he just happens to think along the same lines as I do..........and the same as his father did.
I can attest to the fact that he is the "real deal", what you see is what you get. Few of us that have worked the political arenas go back to the old adage that we are "the peoples" representatives.
Politicians work for the people, are supposed to be accountable to the people and should hold themselves to a higher standard than most of them do.
Larry is one of the exceptions to the rule, hopefully there will be more to come.
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Larry, I know exactly some of the ones you are talking about, and you know my feelings on them. I still want to know why that person "left" one in particular.
Follow the money, from both ends. EDGE offers loans in one form or another (I didn't dig too deep into it), but there has to be an accounting for the money at some point; what is coming in (from where?) and where it is going to......and the terms of repayment and whether it is actually being repaid on time (or at all) needs to be investigated.
Otherwise you could wind up with a Hotel Utica scenario, which if kept hidden, will just disappear after time goes by.
Keep in mind that as with my "favorite agency", loans are made based on the availability of funds and conditions as well as criteria from other lenders.
Are the loans they are making from their pot of money?
If so......who is minding it? How is it dispersed and with what criteria? Are they really loans or are they "grants"?
You can "dummy up" corporations with as many sock puppets as it can support, but the NFP agency has to be above board and accountable. Board meeting minutes, I-90's, etc.
Follow the money, it's easier than trying to follow the people.
Let me know if you need anything.
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 19, 2008 17:18:57 GMT -5
Dave felt sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. Sorry . . .I will never feel sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. He is the same "sap" that engineered Utica's stupid sale of its revenue generating water supply system to a regional water authority that now wants to send water outside the greater Utica region. He's also the same sap who I heard 3 or four years ago say at a Genesis meeting that North Carolina was NOT our competition. Totally amazing and speaking volumes of his own incompetence. Strike, I'm just re-reading this and a couple of thoughts come to mind. First, water sales from a municipality that has a surplus can be a good alternative to raising taxes to pay the bills. Our local village has done so. There are problems, however, as you might guess. The first is that someone needs to answer the question, "Is the revenue needed in the first place, or is this just empire building?" If the latter, then it might be best to sell the resource to a private concern so that any jobs created are in the private sector. Second, have all the impacts been considered? Locally, the village here is being sued by homeowners near the water resource (mountain fed small lake) who insist their water table is dropping as the village draws more water to sell. Also, your comment about North Carolina not being our competition. Depending on what the guy actually said and the context in which it was voiced, I might agree with him. These days, I haven't seen data showing jobs going from New York to the Carolinas. I would also like to see an update as to whether NC is still in the running (as much as it used to be) for development projects that New York is also vying for. |
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Post by tanouryjr on Jul 19, 2008 17:48:24 GMT -5
Dave felt sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. Sorry . . .I will never feel sorry for the "poor sap" who heads EDGE. He is the same "sap" that engineered Utica's stupid sale of its revenue generating water supply system to a regional water authority that now wants to send water outside the greater Utica region. He's also the same sap who I heard 3 or four years ago say at a Genesis meeting that North Carolina was NOT our competition. Totally amazing and speaking volumes of his own incompetence. Strike, I'm just re-reading this and a couple of thoughts come to mind. First, water sales from a municipality that has a surplus can be a good alternative to raising taxes to pay the bills. Our local village has done so. There are problems, however, as you might guess. The first is that someone needs to answer the question, "Is the revenue needed in the first place, or is this just empire building?" If the latter, then it might be best to sell the resource to a private concern so that any jobs created are in the private sector. Second, have all the impacts been considered? Locally, the village here is being sued by homeowners near the water resource (mountain fed small lake) who insist their water table is dropping as the village draws more water to sell. Also, your comment about North Carolina not being our competition. Depending on what the guy actually said and the context in which it was voiced, I might agree with him. These days, I haven't seen data showing jobs going from New York to the Carolinas. I would also like to see an update as to whether NC is still in the running (as much as it used to be) for development projects that New York is also vying for. I'm no economic development, or even business, expert by any means. But I'll give you an example of something I recently saw when visiting my brother in Greenville, South Carolina recently. I was visiting his company in a local business park and noticed a grand opening for the company Northern Safety. Northern Safety is a Utica born company located in the Frankfort Business Park and they have now opened up in Geenville, SC. I hope it's just an expansion or something, but I was concerned that we never heard anything about it here (and I still haven't). My fear is that this is just the start of what will become another story in a year or so that says Northern Safety is closing and leaving the hundreds of jobs behind. Anyone know anything about this? |
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Post by Clipper on Jul 19, 2008 20:08:39 GMT -5
Larry, Northern Safety has grown into a nationwide company. There is a Northern Safety Warehouse about 20 miles from us here in Bristol, at Church Hill Tn. There is also a Northern Safety in Houston Tx. I knew a girl from Utica, that started out at the office in the Frankfort Industrial Park, and transferred to Houston. They are a true success story, and their headquarters is still in Frankfort/Utica.(at least for now).
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 19, 2008 20:37:04 GMT -5
Northern Safety sells safety equipment to a variety of trades. Their product line reminds me of the old Lineman's Supply company and indeed I do remember such a company in Utica years ago. Sal Longo and Neil Sexton head up the company. Both names are listed in Utica area telephone directories. Neither name is listed near Greenville, SC. Northern Saftey's corporate mailing address is a PO box in Utica. They list distribution centers in Frankfort and in Church Hill, TN, near Clipper! There are "branches" in Charleston and Greenville, SC, as well as Nashville, TN and Houston, TX. Here is a shot of their branch on Pelham ridge road in Greenville, SC, from Google Maps Street View, a neat facility.  Information on following web pages: www.northernsafety.com/contact/www.northernsafety.com/aboutus/LATER: Sorry, Clip, didn't see your post. Dave |
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Post by dgriffin on Jul 19, 2008 20:56:54 GMT -5
Here's a further reason why another state may not be our real competition. From: www.sagepub.co.uk/parker/CHAPTER%209/Job%20Migration.doc"MANUFACTURING JOBS GO GLOBAL U.S. medical-products giant Baxter Healthcare generates $10 billion in annual revenues, selling more of its examination and surgeon's gloves abroad than in the U.S. . Baxter's efforts to remain price competitive led managers to move production from a low-wage facility in the U.S. South to even lower-wage Penang, Malaysia where it also could be closer to rubber supplies. PSA Peugeot Citroën doubled the size of its workforce to 68,000 outside France while shrinking its French workforce by 4,000. Volkswagen AG kept its German workforce at the same level as 20 years ago while expanding its foreign work force by two-thirds. The company's trademark Golf car is now made not only in Germany but also in Slovakia, Brazil and South Africa; all of its new Beetles are manufactured in Mexico. In 2004 Siemens employed 3,000 software programmers in India when they announced additional plans to move most of 15,000 such jobs to India, China and Eastern Europe. Beginning in 2006, IBM plans to relocate several thousand high paying programming jobs to China, India, and Brazil to realize savings of $168 million per year. " |
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Post by Clipper on Jul 19, 2008 20:58:40 GMT -5
I forgot about Sal Longo being a bigwig there. I used to buy from them, when I was on the safety comittee at the OD, and at that time, they were just very small, and in the old brick warehouse building on Culver Ave and Dwyer Ave. they sell all sorts of safety equipment. I think it was back support belts for lifting, and some safety films on video that I purchased from them.
I can't see them moving their headquarters from Utica, with the Longos and Sextons involved. Both of those families have deep roots in Utica. They also invested a lot of money in the new building in the industrial park, and I doubt that they would move from there in the near future.
The nature of their business, dictates that it is desirable for them to have a location in CNY to serve the customer base in the Northeast.
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Post by tanouryjr on Jul 19, 2008 21:58:56 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info guys! That certainly makes me feel much better. After posting, I talked with someone that told me that Sal ran the place. I didn't know that. They do have deep roots in Utica and I agree, I don't think they have any plans to leave. But it is nice to keep an eye on it. They are smart businessmen and will do what is best for the company, I'm sure. So I hope it works out. Thanks for the photo Dave. I took a few while I was down there, but have no idea how to post them here, lol.
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Post by wcup102 on Jul 20, 2008 20:17:34 GMT -5
After reading the informative posts and learning a great deal, why can't we stop funding EDGE, dissolve the entity, and start over with accountablility with each step or phase of the organization. Make them accountable from the word GO. DiMeo's pockets, as others, seem to be getting fatter and fatter when I, as I'm sure many of you, are picking lint out of our change to pay for coffee or gasoline.
BTW, have they raised the eligibility income for HEAP yet? I may be able to apply, laughable as it is, but you better believe I will apply if eligible. I WORK, and should be eligible, unlike alot of people that can work and don't. (some sarcasm, and truth, in this last paragraph, if you couldn't tell)
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