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Post by Swimmy on Nov 6, 2013 10:26:24 GMT -5
YAY! Now I can go play the table games instead of the rigged slot machines at Tioga Downs! It's about time the racists decided that the Indians should not be the only ones allowed to have casinos.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 10:54:04 GMT -5
Me see smoke signals in distant mountains; not good sigh.
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Post by chris on Nov 6, 2013 11:28:39 GMT -5
I hope they build one in Rochester so I don't have to travel to Canandaiqua, Batavia or Buffalo or Canada. I'll have a new place to hang out (not a mall fan) ;D
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Post by dave on Nov 9, 2013 10:59:16 GMT -5
Hmmmmph. I'll go with the churches on this one. (How'd I find myself over here with the Ladies Aid Society?) Casinos attract lots of nasties to the neighborhood. They will make lots of money for a few and ruin the Catskills. Jobs will go to those young unattached coming up from the city to work. It won't benefit the locals. Sure the government will get more taxe revenue. Will property taxes go down? Nope. Will services improve? Not for you. Has the quality of life improved anywhere in the neighborhood of casinos? Oh, sure, I have a cousin who wouldn't be working if it weren't for his casino job. Here and there are good stories. Anyone with a job these days is a good story. Casinos don't produce anything, they just move money around. And usually not in your direction.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Nov 9, 2013 12:14:23 GMT -5
Dave, I think that's an accurate summation.
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Post by chris on Jan 7, 2014 11:18:27 GMT -5
Dave I would love a shot of moving their money into my pocket. I'm not a big gambler and hate loosing my money but I do enjoy a day trip here and there. If closer I would have a place to hang out other than the mall.
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Post by Clipper on Jan 7, 2014 11:44:24 GMT -5
I agree with part of what you are saying Dave. We frequent a casino in Cherokee NC a couple of times a year. Thus far we haven't seen a lot of "nasties" there. Mostly senior citizens and middle aged middle class folks. We always saw that same demographic at the Turning Stone in Verona.
As for the casinos that will be developed in the Catskills, it may bring a bit of revitalization to some of the old hotels, but bus loads from NYC may bring a less than desirable demographic to the area. Fortunately, the concern that "nasties" will permeate the area is probably overstated. Most will come on a bus, never leave the casino and will get back on the bus and go home. ANY public place like a casino is a place where one needs to be on guard against thieves and purse snatchers.
Vernon Downs has not brought any major onslaught of undesirables either.
I am sure that you are correct about many of the employees coming from the city also, due to the fact that the dealer schools will be in NYC and Atlantic City. I doubt that they will open any schools to train casino dealers in Monticello or Liberty.
Undoubtedly casino gambling is a losing proposition for those of us that frequent those establishments. When Kathy and I go to Cherokee, it is with only a set amount of money budgeted for gambling, NO expectation of hitting anything of substantial nature, and with the idea in mind that we want to simply relax, enjoy our luxurious and "free" room, room service breakfast and a couple of good meals in the restaurants, partially paid for with our comp points. Unless one is a habitual or addicted gambler, casino gambling is simply another way to spend discretionary cash.
I have always been of the opinion that anyone with a gambling habit or addiction will play in a backroom poker game, or lose their ass with a bookie, betting horses or sports books. I see no major harm in having slot machines for those of us that want to partake.
Do we don't forbid the bars because there are alcoholics in the world, or take pain medications off the market because some people obtain them and abuse them?
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Post by dave on Jan 7, 2014 21:00:15 GMT -5
Do we don't forbid the bars because there are alcoholics in the world, or take pain medications off the market because some people obtain them and abuse them? No we don't, but we do set limits to the size of crowds in buildings, mandate vaccinations, license those who wish to drive vehicles on roads built at public expense and maintain a host of other intrusive measures that compromise our freedoms but protect our interests. And therein lies the nub of the problem. When is the government being intrusive and when is it acting on our behalf? What do We The People allow and what dangers do we license and what do we flat out prohibit? Ordinarily I'm all for an unfettered existence, free from the rules set by those who always think they know better. After all, what can be said for a system where politicians who have never accomplished anything convince a minority they know what they're talking about, get on the ballot and then spend millions to convince the rest of the sheep they have the answers. But I get suspicious when an activity that has been considered troublesome in society and has therefore been banned for over a century (in New York) suddenly appears to be OK just as the State is running out of revenue sources. An activity that for some inexplicable reason remained illegal for everyone else while it became OK if run as a business by a tribe of Indians. Hello? Where was the logic in that? So we all argue over whether public gambling is a good idea. There have been a lot of studies, but a quick scan via Google led me to conclude that most rearchers had an axe to grind on one side of the issue or another. However, I came across three studies that seemed helpful although not yet complete. (They may be at this date, but Google Search spews up data based on word searches and doesn't always yield information useful for examining topics on a time line.) The first study was a British effort, probably applying as well to America, which essentially says the pros and cons are often overstated by those on both sides of the the gambling issue. Executive Summary here: www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_34552_en.pdfAnother study by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission on the regional economic impacts of casino gambling, which appears to have been done at Penn State, has a very good summary of the questions involved when determining the economic impact of gambling. Pages i, ii, iii, and iv in the Executive Summary present a reasonable picture of the issues and what the researchers should be studying. govinfo.library.unt.edu/ngisc/reports/ecoimprpt.pdfA third study sought to learn the economic and social costs and benefits arising from the creation and operation of four new gambling projects in the Vancouver, BC area over a period of years. The paper at the following url attempts to set a baseline of economic and other indicators that could be compared to over time to draw conclusions about the impacts. In the study's Introduction the researchers outline which indicators they feel should be monitored and this provides a good look at the issues presented when considering the economic and social impacts of gambling. The study is at: www.gaming.gov.bc.ca/reports/docs/rpt-rg-impact-study-baseline.pdf
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Post by bobbbiez on Jan 8, 2014 1:14:23 GMT -5
Dave I would love a shot of moving their money into my pocket. I'm not a big gambler and hate loosing my money but I do enjoy a day trip here and there. If closer I would have a place to hang out other than the mall. Chris, I'm with you. I'm not a shopper or a mall person and I enjoy taking a trip to Turning Stone once in a while to relax and to enjoy myself especially in the winter time when there isn't much to do for entertainment. I have my limit to spend and with the free play they give me it doesn't cost me any more money then if I went out to dinner and a movie. Plus, many times I win my money back and more. That doesn't happen paying for a dinner and a movie. I haven't had any problems with undesirables at the Turning Stone or do I see any when I've gone. Geez I see more of them when I shop at WalMart. lol! I have three nephews who work at casinos and many friends who work there also. My uncle is a security guard at the Turning Stone. They do take good care of their employees. It's one business where the benefits are fantastic. Their health care plan which includes medical, dental and eye glasses is fantastic. Can't say the same for many other businesses. One of my nephews moved to the Poconos last year and was hired as a pit boss at their casino. He loves the place and the people he works for. Don't know if you've ever been to the Poconos but it's a place that has very little in the entertainment field so the casino gave the citizens a place to enjoy and hired many of the people living there. I have to honestly say that casinos give more benefits to the areas they locate in.
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Post by dave on Jan 15, 2014 18:11:49 GMT -5
Just Once More: The Face of AddictionGambling and other addictions strike too close to home. Just ask our writer, whose mom is addicted to the slots.by: Mary Lou Fulton, from: AARP VIVA, Summer 2009 “The new face of problem gambling in America has become a senior woman who has lost a spouse or become alienated from her children, but has embraced slot machines and quite rapidly develops an addiction,” says Keith Whyte, executive director of the National Council on Problem Gambling, a nonprofit organization that estimates Americans gambled away $100 billion in 2008. I don't buy my mom nice jewelry anymore because I am afraid she'll sell it in a moment of desperation at the casino, when she's out of cash and willing to do anything to give the slot machines just one more try. My mom, 67, is a gambling addict. She calls it el vicio—the vice—and she’s quick to admit it, to apologize, to swear she’s through. But some combination of post-retirement boredom, loneliness, and perhaps even a genetic tendency toward addiction keeps pulling her back. And so my beautiful, courageous mom—a native of Mexico who started working at age 14, who immigrated to the United States without knowing a word of English and went on to earn three advanced degrees, who has inspired so many children in 30 years as an elementary school teacher—finds herself swimming in debt, savings depleted, at a time when she should be enjoying the rewards of a life of hard work and sacrifice. The Problem“The new face of problem gambling in America has become a senior woman who has lost a spouse or become alienated from her children, but has embraced slot machines and quite rapidly develops an addiction,” says Keith Whyte, executive director of the National Council on Problem Gambling, a nonprofit organization that estimates Americans gambled away $100 billion in 2008. Continued at: www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-06-2009/just_once_more.html
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Post by dave on Jan 15, 2014 18:17:43 GMT -5
San Diego Ex-Mayor Confronts $1 Billion Gambling Problemby JENNIFER MEDINA February 14, 2013 LOS ANGELES — A former mayor of San Diego spent the last decade wagering more than a billion dollars at casinos across the country, eventually liquidating her savings, auctioning her belongings, selling off real estate, borrowing from friends and taking more than $2 million from a charity set up by her late husband, a fast-food tycoon.The former mayor, Maureen O’Connor, 66, blamed an addiction to gambling aggravated by a brain tumor for the gargantuan spree. Her lawyers said that while she had made well over a billion dollars in bets at casinos in Las Vegas, Atlantic City and San Diego, her actual net losses were around $13 million. Federal prosecutors said it was impossible to know precisely how much Ms. O’Connor had lost over those years, but she emerged with her fortune gone and her health shattered. She took out second and third mortgages on her La Jolla, Calif., home to pay for the gambling. The former Southern California political power broker, whose husband, Robert O. Peterson, founded the Jack-in-the-Box fast-food chain, appeared in court in San Diego on Thursday to answer to charges that she had stolen money from her late husband’s foundation to fuel her addiction. She walked unsteadily into court, leaning on a cane and appearing wobbly and distraught. She teared up as she told reporters, “Those of you who know me here would know that I never meant to hurt the city that I love.” Ms. O’Connor was not accused of taking money from the city, but the money in her husband’s trust would probably have gone to local charities. “I always intended to pay it back and I still intend to pay it back,” she said. Continue at: www.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/us/over-a-decade-maureen-oconnor-spent-1-billion-on-bets.html?_r=0
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Post by dave on Jan 15, 2014 18:41:23 GMT -5
There's also a good article in the January-February, 2014 AARP Bulletin on line at pubs.aarp.org/aarpbulletin/20140102_SC?sub_id=BcKt6Yjx8gFqP&lm=1389555418000#pg24You'll need to register to see the article. Here are some excerpts: " ... older Americans are the fastest-growing segment of gambling addicts. For about 8 percent, it's an addiction that can cost them their retirement nest egg. "About 40 percent of the people we see are over 50," says psychologist Roert Hunter, who directs the Problem-gambling-Center in Las Vegas. "Many of them are people who got into trouble after retiring and moving to a place where casinos are a big part of social life." "The nations $40 billion a year gambling industry aggressively targets older customers, as they have accumulated wealth and are especially vulnerable, experts say, to wagering more than they can afford. The enticements range from free bus trips, meals and even discount prescription cards to "comped" hotel accommodations.""for a lot of older people we see, it was never about the money," says Gordon Greco, 62, a compulsive gambler most of his life who now works as a counselor for the Problem Gambling Center in Las Vegas. "They go to the casino to escape regrets, loneliness, isolation, sadness. And when they start losing money,m they find themselves with even bigger problems and regrets. Greco calls video slot machines the "crack cocaine of compulsive gambling."
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Post by bobbbiez on Jan 16, 2014 0:30:44 GMT -5
......and then there are many of us who go to a casino once in a while for just pure entertainment with the plus of maybe winning some extra cash.
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Post by dave on Jan 16, 2014 8:45:15 GMT -5
That's true, Bz. And there will always be the question of what society does or should do for those who might become addicted. We regulate but don't forbid drugs and alcohol. We regulate gambling, although in a bizarre way. To forbid gambling because some people will overdo it seems unwise, let alone wrong in a free society. And yet, when we promote it, we increase the number of people caught in its snare.
Damned if I know what's the right course.
Maybe just that we should be aware of the implications of what our government is enlarging solely for its own revenue enhancement.
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Post by Clipper on Jan 16, 2014 13:27:01 GMT -5
Two ways to look at the situation. As Dave said the other day, there are incentives to get people to gamble. Free bus trips, free buffets, free slot play. WE even get free hotel rooms when we go. It depends on how much you spend when you are there. For those of us in control of our own destiny and not addicted, it is a great form of entertainment and relaxation, while enjoying a resort atmosphere and luxurious digs.
Putting casinos in the Catskills is simply going to allow NY to grab back a piece of the pie that is now going to NJ and Connecticut with free buses and flights to Atlantic City or Foxwoods and Mohican Sun on a daily basis.
If I still lived in NY I would be HOPING for ANYTHING that would enhance the State's revenue flow and take some from somewhere else besides MY pocket in increased fees and taxes on everything.
For a habitual gambler, the money will be spent on gambling one way or the other. If not at a slot machine, the person will probably play it all on hundreds of dollars worth of scratch off lottery tickets, play poker, bingo, or bet with a bookie on some sort of sports book.
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