NY State Tax "Reform":

[dave]

Last week received this in my email from a NY State property tax reform organization.

"It's official. Gov. Cuomo has at last admitted that property tax is a state - not a local - issue. Property tax will now be considered among those taxes which must be reduced in NYS to stem the tide of loss of homes and population exodus.

(Our coalition) stressed for months that Albany must include property taxes in its commission on NYS tax relief. (We've stressed for years that property taxes are a state problem.)

It appears our message has gotten through! Now we've got to make sure they do it right!

Please pass this good news along to friends, family, neighbors."

[/b][/quote]
Why do I smell a rat? I think the folks who sent me the "good news" must be unbelievably naive. I'm betting the so-called "NY State Tax Relief Commission" will act as cover while the boys in Albany collect another tax to fund education, give ten percent of it back to school districts and tell them that's all they're going to get and they can collect an additional tax if they want extras such as bus transportation, buildings and books. Result of such "tax reform" will be higher taxes. As it has to be if someone is to pay for higher and higher spending in NY on education (which is basically all compensation.) THAT problem, which is THE problem, will of course not be addressed. No one wants to tell Dick and Jane's parents the kids' education is going to suffer while school districts continue to deal with bloated state mandates (which will include the kind of reverse-hate objectives Strikeslip pointed out in his post here a few days ago) and other budget items that are weighing down local taxpayers.

Here's a link to the new commission's Ministry of Volksaufklärung (Public Enlightenment.)
That the commission is co-chaired by George Pataki and Carl McCall should tell us something.

www.governor.ny.gov/press/10022013-tax-relief-commission

[clarencebunsen]

I would have liked to see the press release include the entire list of accomplishments bringing about fiscal reform by Chairmen Pataki & McCall; it wouldn't have made the document much longer.

This group has eight weeks to produce a plan that will make everything all better.

I think we need Dave to properly illustrate the Dream Sequence of the committee meetings:

"How about a suggestion box at every seller of lottery tickets and scratch offs?"
"Oh, oh! I've got it! Electronic scratch offs! Over the internet! It would save the printing and distribution costs and save Our Taxpayers the expense and hassle of driving to the gas station to buy them. And to make it more Leading Edge and Progressive we could accept those Bit Coin thingies!"
"We could hire the homeless to solicit donations for Relief NY."
"Start 'em young, I say. We need to find a way to incorporate scratch offs into the school lunch program. Are there any federal funds for that?"
"Toll booths on the Thruway should sell scratch offs. Drivers could charge it to their EZPass."
"How about Tax Return Lotto? Tax payers could donate an extra $10 on their returns to be entered into a drawing for cash prizes and trips to a casino."
"That's unfair to those who don't file returns."
"We could hold a separate drawing for them. Are there any federal funds for that?"

[dave]

[Clipper]

Personally I think that NY has gone beyond the point of no return as far as enticing industry to locate there or any ability to retain retirees as they age out of the labor market and into fixed income status.

As much as I love the Adirondacks and CNY I would have to be crazy to return to NY. Our retirement dollars simply go much farther here in the SE and the quality of life is certainly not lacking. I bought my last tank of gas for $2.94 a gallon. How much is gas in Utica right now? Total taxes are 1/6th of what they were in Utica for a comparable valued property. The subtle differences in the cost of living add up quickly.

Of course some things that drive up the taxes up there are items in the budgets that bring about uncontrollable costs, such as snow removal and heating costs for schools and government buildings. In an individual budget, heating costs are a major item. We are able to have electricity including both Central AC and heat for $145-$150 per month total utility bill year around. No oil or natural gas necessary. Last winter I can only remember the plow going by the house about twice, and the salt truck maybe 4 or 5 times, and usually they have to hurry up and plow before the snow melts.

Seems that NYers have ended up with a massive infrastructure that is almost beyond sustainability. If I still worked, I MIGHT consider staying in NY, but as a retired person, I find it much more frugal and smart to remain in this area. I simply wake up every morning wishing it were different. I would like nothing more than to be able to live like we do here, but live this way in the Adirondacks of upstate NY. As Dave used to say in my journal introduction on More Stories, that while I live in Tennessee, my heart will always remain in the Mohawk Valley and upstate NY.

[dave]

And I thought my heart would remain in NY, but so far it hasn't. The two times I've been up there in the past two years I've realized I miss the streams and mountains where we used to live, but that's about it. Everything up there seemed so closed in and dirty, especially in winter. Down here there are hardly any businesses that close to the road edges. In the newer areas there is a tremendous of open land space between malls and buildings. And ponds everywhere, of course, to catch the rain run-off.

We have the ocean, but I've also discovered in South Carolina a beauty in the forest lands and farms back away from the shore, the lazy rivers and the very clean little towns where I expect to see Sherriff Andy come walking down the sidewalk.
I drive through the Francis Marion (Swamp Fox ! ) Forest on my way to the abbey where I volunteer and it is economically poor country with lots of camp-like houses. So much so that along with the pine and oak it's like being in the Adirondacks without the mountains and the fast cold streams. I always get a kick out of the similarity.
Everyone has been friendly. It's a southern trait. I'm not saying everyone would invite you to dinner, but they know how to act in public and I can't tell you the number of times total strangers have graced my life. These folks know how to live, and it doesn't begin with 'gimme, gimme,' like it seemed to do in NY.

Clipper, sounds like I might be doing a little better down here than in Tennessee. Our only utility is electricity also. And we pay about the same as you in the peak months, $120 to $140 each month, but we have these gorgeous long springs and falls of three full months each where it usually runs about $45. No more thousand dollar tanks of oil! And I just paid my yearly tax bill. $387. That's not a typo. It is ... let me get out the calculator, That's 4.3 % of what I was paying up North. It's a smaller house with not as much property, so figure an honest comparison would still make the taxes only about 10% of what they were up there.

[clarencebunsen]

But don't you miss having Gov. Andy and Sen. Chuck rather than Sheriff Andy and Barney?
and the price of admission is only 10 times as much.

[Clipper]

It does sound like you are definitely living cheaper than we do here in NE Tennessee. I am not complaining though. Do you have a state income tax in SC? Tennessee has a state income tax based and filed strictly on interest and dividend income. It doesn't affect the paycheck or pension income. I assume that most states leave social security income alone.

Tennessee gets a sizable income from sales tax revenue. The fair thing about that is that EVERYONE that spends any money in the state, property owner or not, pays their share of the taxes. Our sales tax is 7% state tax and 2.25% more in county and city sales taxes. While we pay a higher sales tax, we have much lower gasoline taxes, no state income tax, lower property taxes and that makes our total tax payments much lower than what we experienced in NY. Since 2002, our property tax has gone up a grand total of $13 and is still less than $500 per annum, as opposed to over $3K in Utica.

I certainly don't miss buying those 275 gallon quantities of #2 heating oil and watching the price go up and down. Our rate of usage of power goes up and down with the weather, with spring and fall being lower usage, but we simply find it easier to budget on the budget plan and pay the same each month.

Winters in NY are not something I miss. I remember once during my divorce I came up short of cash. I was living in a rented mobile home that was heated with a kerosene gun style furnace. I had just rented it and the kero was running low. Having just paid a hunk of money to my lawyer, I was put in the position where for a week or more I had to buy kero every couple of days at the pump price at a convenience store and stand in crotch deep snow to pour it into the large tank with 5 gallon cans and a funnel made from a milk jug, simply because I refused to incur more debt by charging a tank full to my credit card or a bill, simply because I didn't intend to stay there for very long.

We don't have Sheriff Andy and Barney, although we do have a local guy that looks exactly like Barney and makes a living doing personal appearances as a Barney Fife look alike. No Chucky Schumer or Cuomos here thank goodness.

Our gas continues to drop for right now. It is running between $2.92 and $3.49 depending on where you purchase it. Out by the interstate they are naturally screwing the traveling public at those stations near the exits.

[dave]

We do have car taxes and they cost me about $300 each year. GAsoline is about the same as yours. I do have a few hundred dollars per years in termite abatement and I pay for water. I just paid a monthly bill today for $46 and my lawn sprinklers are still on.
I paid $11 for a fishing license down here, compared to $29 the last time I bought one in New York. And after I'd been here a year, since I was a senior citizen, they gave me for a one time charge of $9 a lifetime sportsman license -- fishing saltwater and freshwater, hunting small and large, trapping, everything but the federal duck stamp.
Housing prices up north are much higher compared to here, Re property taxes: They passed a law some years ago earmarking a certain portion of sales tax to go directly to counties (the only entity we pay real estate taxes to .. we don't have school property taxes) to off set real property taxes. For example, The money didn't get lost like the NY money for education.

[Deleted]

Sir Andy hasen't much luck with some of the programs & laws he's gotten passed.

Cuomo wants to rebuild the Tappan Zee bridge at a cost of $6 billion & was hoping to get a federal low interest loan for 49% of the bridge's cost. Well the Feds just informed Cuomo that the loan will only be for 39%. Guess who's going to make up the difference? Tolls will possibly triple on the bridge to help pay for it. Downstater's will just love that!

Cuomo's SafeAct that he rammed down everyon'e throat has totally incensed gun owners who had no say in the legistlation's wording. That will cost him in the polls.

Unemployment remains high in NY despite Cuomo's nonsense claiming otherwise.

The jury is still out on Cuomo's pact with the OIN, which has to be ratified at the polls come Nov.

He can't or won't come up with a decision on hydrofracking.

Taxes & utility costs in NY are some of the highest in the Country.

The list goes on but Cuomo's thinks he's God's gift to NY.

I have an idea for a campaign slogan for Sir Andy should he decide to run for reelection or POTUS:

Andrew Cuomo- "Frequently wrong but never in doubt".

[clarencebunsen]

Andrew Cuomo- "Frequently wrong but never in doubt".

I think you have a future as a campaign operative.

[Clipper]

I would say that you have posted a pretty damned accurate assessment of Cuomo's time in office.

If the downstate residents are forced to pay difference in the price in increased bridge tolls, it is only right. It is about time that downstate assumed more responsibility for downstate infrastructure. Yep, they are the "economic engine" that runs the state, but upstate can't continue to carry so much burden in increased utility costs and taxes to support megopolis while people like Cuomo drive business and industry as well as residential taxpayers away enmasse. The water from the Catskills runs out of open hydrants and down the sewers like it was free. The tax dollars seem to be sucked down the drain to the leak in the boat that is NYC. The hole through which tax dollars pour out with no benefit whatsoever to those upstate that are paying taxes too.

However, the feds SHOULD provide 49%. The bridge is a major link in the interstate highway system, and a main route for trucks coming north from NJ headed to New England, as well as being a MAJOR carrier of traffic supplying NYC and Long Island.

I have no stats, but I would say that the GW Bridge and the TappanZee are probably two of the busiest bridges in the nation.

[dave]

All the bridges could be falling down in the next 25 years. Then Cuomo will invent ferries, like the Russians invented peanut butter. Kracker, I'd shorten your phrase to simply "Never A Doubt," that makes it a sarcasm and people can guess what comes before it.
Then a campaign logo that would have said "GO Andrew" would read "GO NAD."

[clarencebunsen]

I can't find the reference just now, if anyone cares I'll look, but when I first read about the feds providing a smaller loan than we requested, Gov. Cuomo decreed it to be unacceptable to cover the amount with bridge tolls and said we needed to fund it on a more widespread basis. I took that to mean higher Thruway tolls statewide plus other ways of sharing the pain. Personally, I'm not fond of the idea of paying more to drive to Syracuse or Buffalo in order to subsidize other people's trip across the Hudson.

[clarencebunsen]

Perhaps Secretary Kerry could get the Russians to help with a replacement bridge.

[clarencebunsen]

The video seems to be having problems. Here is a direct link.



Sorry, no matter what I do I'm seeing an error message.