More taxpayer waste

[stoney]

Apr 14, 2011 1:49:29 GMT -5 Ralph said:

I think Jim will make a great Council President. He takes his time and is very thorough with everything he does, making sure all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. While West Utica may be losing him as a Councilperson, the City as a whole will benefit from his move up the ladder.

Utica would benefit from anyone other than Morehouse. I can't believe he even calls himself a Democrat!

He's made inappropriate comments about Obama & healthcare during the CC meetings, he makes little "digs" at certain council-people & does not treat them all the same way, he allows some resident speakers to go on & on if what they are saying is something he agrees with (otherwise he finds some reason to cut them off), he is obviously biased & does not hide it.

He is a terrible council president, & I would never want to see him go any further in public office.

[Clipper]

He made" inappropriate comments about Obama and Obamacare?" He should run for king of the world, not mayor. Just not as a democrat obviously. What is inappropriate? Anything other than the party line? Oh. You mean inappropriate for a CC meeting. I understand now. LOL

[stoney]

Yes, Clipster~~very inappropriate for a CC meeting.

[Clipper]

Good call Stoney. I understand much better now. I am glad that you are here to keep me straight on those political issues that are rather ambiguous at times. ;D Love ya girl!

[stoney]

It's a heavy cross I bear, Clip. But somebody has to do it!!

[Clipper]

Does the job pay much?

[clarencebunsen]

I thought it was like a dollar dance at a wedding. People line up & pay Stoney a dollar to use her whip.

[Clipper]

Hmmm. If it is me tied to the whipping post, Stoney will be a rich woman. God forbid that my ex wives hear about THAT opportunity!

[dgriffin]

Back on topic, I think wasting taxpayer money is not going to stop until a concerted effort is made to expose each and every instance to public scrutiny and then ....

Well, that's the problem. The public doesn't scrutinize, or at least it doesn't punish. Even if a newspaper very carefully tracked who was taking advantage of the system and exposed them, prosecutors would act only if forced to and voters would continue to re-elect scofflaw politicians, it seems.

Why is that? Have we so short memories? Are we so used to the specter of politicians cheating the system that we no longer care?
A politician who steals in a direct sense or even in an indirect sense by hiring his relatives over more suitable candidates deserves the boot but seldom gets it. I guess we have only ourselves to blame.

What would it take to change us? To make us citizens in the fullest sense, those who follow issues and the behavior of our public officials and reward them accordingly with either reelection or thumbs down.

We had a local Ford dealer down here who cheated customers on a regular basis, so bad he was twice threatened by the local D.A. with jail time if he didn't stop. They had the guy dead to rights. He would relent, get the law off his tail and be back with some new scam the following year. Each time, after his name and dealership was all over the papers for a few weeks, he would take out ads saying, "John'sFord is the Most Honest Dealer in the Valley." It was ridiculous, but it worked. After a while people believed the advertising. A friend told me he was going to buy a car there and when I reminded him of the dealer's past sins, he said, "But everyone says he's the most honest dealer in the valley!"
Perhaps the dealer learned his tricks from the political parties. Or vice versa.

[clarencebunsen]

Dave,
Sometimes it is beyond frustrating. We had a controller who was an admitted thief. A majority of New Yorkers pulled the lever to re-elect him to watch our money.

[dgriffin]

Yes, details here.

www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/04/16/2011-04-16_prison_sentence_for_former_controller_alan_hevesi_must_mark_the_beginning_of_alb.html

I don't think I've ever been pleased by anyone going to jail, but for this guy I'll make an exception.

A quote from the above linked article:
"Public officials don't just commit offenses like that. They grow into committing them when the give-and-take of benefits, whether in money or favors, becomes the norm in government.
As is the case in New York's capital, where there are virtually no limits on campaign contributions, there is virtually no personal financial disclosure by officials, and everyone and his or her brother and sister seems to have paying clients or a pal on the receiving end of state money."

[clarencebunsen]

I am hoping that the article made a deliberate play on words: capital vs. capitol.

[dgriffin]

I think they used the correct spelling. Capitol would be a building. Or did you mean something else?

[larry]

Apr 16, 2011 19:39:42 GMT -5 @dgriffin said:

Back on topic, I think wasting taxpayer money is not going to stop until a concerted effort is made to expose each and every instance to public scrutiny and then ....

Well, that's the problem. The public doesn't scrutinize, or at least it doesn't punish. Even if a newspaper very carefully tracked who was taking advantage of the system and exposed them, prosecutors would act only if forced to and voters would continue to re-elect scofflaw politicians, it seems.

Why is that? Have we so short memories? Are we so used to the specter of politicians cheating the system that we no longer care?
A politician who steals in a direct sense or even in an indirect sense by hiring his relatives over more suitable candidates deserves the boot but seldom gets it. I guess we have only ourselves to blame.

What would it take to change us? To make us citizens in the fullest sense, those who follow issues and the behavior of our public officials and reward them accordingly with either reelection or thumbs down.

We had a local Ford dealer down here who cheated customers on a regular basis, so bad he was twice threatened by the local D.A. with jail time if he didn't stop. They had the guy dead to rights. He would relent, get the law off his tail and be back with some new scam the following year. Each time, after his name and dealership was all over the papers for a few weeks, he would take out ads saying, "John'sFord is the Most Honest Dealer in the Valley." It was ridiculous, but it worked. After a while people believed the advertising. A friend told me he was going to buy a car there and when I reminded him of the dealer's past sins, he said, "But everyone says he's the most honest dealer in the valley!"
Perhaps the dealer learned his tricks from the political parties. Or vice versa.

Very interesting post, Dave. You summed up the problem. From studies I've read, only about 5-10% of active voters are what's considered "thinking voters". That means they actually deliberate about who they're voting for and research candidates. That means the majority are party line voters or vote based on relationships and emotions. In this area, politics is very "tribal". That's how they're able to control who gets elected (for the most part). There's a select group that sits at the top of both parties and decides who takes what. The party faithful, unfortunately, end up doing all the work and actually believe they're fighting for something. Then there's the personal aspect. Some people just dislike a candidate for personal reasons and vote against them despite the fact that their policy positions may align with their best interests. But the biggest problem is the parties failing to offer support to people that want to get involved and run for office. They make the process very UN-Democratic. Anyone can win an unopposed election, and many around here have gone 30+ years with little to no real opposition. That's unhealthy.

How do we fix it and get people to understand what their representatives are doing? The first thing we need to understand is that we (us on this board) are in the small minority. Most people don't even know who their local reps are. They certainly don't know what's going on in the inner sanctums of government or party politics. The only way that changes is if a group of like minded folks get together and form a PAC like New York Uprising. Say Utica Uprising, and start raising money. It takes money (but not a ton). It can have a philosophical leaning, but should remain non-partisan.

Then, when a major issue comes up, you do direct mail, robo calls, etc. in these people's districts. If a person is completely corrupt or out-of-touch, you blast the district with direct mail, ads, phone calls, etc., getting the message out to their constituents. That could lead to them either changing their ways, or a new candidate stepping up. The key is like Tip O'Neill said, "All politics is local". Right now, all of the political action groups are national or statewide, and their ads are generally broad based against the Gov. or President. That doesn't effect the local political scene where most issues closest to the voter are decided. We have "community groups", but they stay away from any political stuff and are scared to death of taking a stand. Community organizing and political activism are very different.

That's just my opinion though. I believe you need to hold your local representatives accountable, but it takes money. It's much cheaper now days though (unless you hire a consultant that charges 100 times the cost). You can target a direct mailer in a council district for about $1,500, and that's a professionally designed piece. You can do robo calls for 3-4 cents per call. And TV is cheaper than people think. And with the web, you can direct them to a website for further information, which the "thinking voter" will do.

[dgriffin]

Very informative, Larry. Thanks.