"What's the Point", on Faultlines blog

[Clipper]

Strike brings forth a different take on the series being touted by the OD, concerning the shady past of Utica and organized crime.

I myself read the OD article with interest, seeing as I lived through that period and it brought back memories. But when I stopped to think about those memories, I realize that the city that I love, has many more memorable things to reminisce about than it's ties to organized crime and a shameful acts that took place in that era.

I find it hard to swallow, when the area newspaper has nothing better to offer, than reminders of a past better left in the past. Why pick a scab, and open old wounds?

I ALSO wonder if it is a ploy to deflect attention from the politics and corruption in New Hartford today. Now that Jerome Donovan is one of the " political inner circle" and serves on a "board" in NH, we don't have to guess anymore where the OD will stand on issues and happenings.

I guess we won't hold our breath waiting for any unbiased reporting of NH issues, and we can look forward to the OD throwing up a smoke screen that does nothing but feed discontent and reflect poorly on the wonderful city that the newspaper calls home.

Check out Strike's great take on the issue, at strikeslip.blogspot.com/ Thanks for keepin it real Strike!

OH, and by the way, the OD in their usual manner is not allowing comment on the series, and avoid anyone telling them that they should move their focus a few miles South to the town and village of New Hartford, if they want to discuss corruption.

[frankcor]

I pretty much agree with Strikeslip in that it appears the OD is basking in the glories of its faded past while it fails to perform any valid journalism today. It's frustrating to see the OD print press releases from government officials and non-profits verbatim and fail to ask sometimes fundamental questions.

[dgriffin]

First, a thought about the facts, as I remember them.

To quote Strike quoting the OD, "Bean, the Haverford College dean of academic affairs, (where is Haverford College, by the way?) said the national focus on Utica was harmful to the city’s economy, just as it was rebounding from the loss of textile mills."

I guess I'd like to see some dates and numbers from Dean Bean. I think Ma Davis and her girls, probably the most infamous characters of the Sin City episode as it appeared in Life and Look magazines, came a long time after Utica's role as a major textile center. And my impression of the 1950's after the city's 15 minutes of fame, before GE and others went overseas and south, was of growing businesses, skilled workers moving into the area and prosperity. I was just a teenager, but I read the papers. Including the OD.

Second, the OD's motivation. As always, it's money. Either save some or make some. With the exception of protecting relatives, it's really hard for me to believe a modern small city newspaper cares about political intrigue. What would that do for their bottom line? Strike is more likely right about the newspaper re-packaging material from their old files. I don't follow the staff there, but if you do, check to see who is writing the story. If it's an intern, that should tell us something.

[Clipper]

You are correct Dave. The textile mills were long gone, the Globe Mill and State St Mill were discount stores, and industry was doing well. I don't remember any major economic impact from the Fischer investigation. Things were fairly good in Utica at the time. Univac was doing well with 3 plants in Ilion and one in Utica, Cogar was doing business in Schuyler, and Bendix, GE's several plants, Special Metals, Utica Drop Forge, Chicago Pneumatic, and others were hiring. If my memory serves me right, employment was good at the time.

I think Utica had long since "recovered" from the loss of the textile mills.

One thing that I have to point out though is the fact that our city was still pretty, and inhabitable on all 4 sides. I wonder if the "old" organized crime figures would have kept the "disorganized crime" punks of today from ruining the city as they have.

[Ralph]

Haverford College is in Haverford, PA.

So what the hell does this bean dean know about Utica, NY?

[dgriffin]

May 4, 2009 16:21:23 GMT -5 Clipper said:

I wonder if the "old" organized crime figures would have kept the "disorganized crime" punks of today from ruining the city as they have.

The "Noble Wise Guy" was a comfortable belief on the part of many of us growing up in Utica. In fact, these were mostly dangerous and deranged people, whose greed knew no bounds.

Tony Soprano, the television character, has given us a truer picture ... the likable big bear of a guy who is fun to be with, drinking wine and wolfing down pasta together in a warm and homey hangout, until the knife flashes under the table and you're suddenly without the equipment God gave you on the day you were born.

[snickers]

May 4, 2009 17:27:50 GMT -5 Ralph said:

Haverford College is in Haverford, PA.

So what the hell does this bean dean know about Utica, NY?

MUST one sit in the midst of the swamp in order to study mosquitoes?

[dgriffin]

May 5, 2009 8:35:03 GMT -5 snickers said:

May 4, 2009 17:27:50 GMT -5 Ralph said:

Haverford College is in Haverford, PA.

So what the hell does this bean dean know about Utica, NY?

MUST one sit in the midst of the swamp in order to study mosquitoes?

[/size][/quote]

Of course not, but it's customary to explain the bona fides of the "expert" and why he in particular was chosen to be interviewed. It seems odd they called upon someone in Haverford, PA for background when there must be someone closer with the credentials to discuss Utica history.

I wonder if Gatehouse has a newspaper in that area, and if the story was written from there. If so, it should have been datelined from there.

The conglomerate that owns the daily in the city south of me was pooling reporters among their newspapers a few years ago and a few stories were written by people who had never been to our area. Also, when a story in Podunk seemed appropriate in content, it ran in multiple newspapers across the chain, to the consternation of readers who had never heard of Podunk.

[bobbbiez]

I usually agree with Strikeslip and he knows I feel he is very knowledgeable but on this I do have to disagree with him.

Since the OD started to publish the series on the mob dealings in Utica last Sunday I've talked to many of our younger people who are truly interested in reading the series. Whether or not the OD wants to bask in the glory they are bringing the facts to our younger generation who want to know about the history of the city they were born and raised in.

Just as we here on the forum are very intrigued reading about the history of some of our older buildings and their former occupants that Fiona, Dave and Jon are providing information about, our younger people are intrigued in this series concerning the corruption, crimes, murders and the people involved in Utica's past.

Many of these young folks only heard rumors or stories their grandparents or great grandparents told them and never really knew the true story of the organized crime here in Utica and through this series I'm sure they'll be provided information of exactly what did take place. Can't knock the OD for doing that.

This series also shows our younger people just how bad corruption in politics and government can really be and I'm sure it's an eye opener for many. If this series provides information and knowledge to those that seek it then I say, it's all good.

[dgriffin]

I agree with you Bobbbiez, exposure is a good thing and won't hurt Utica's image. Imagine if the OD had REFUSED to print a story about past corruption.

Still, I wonder if Strike would make the point that Utica would be better served by a story on modern corruption.

[bobbbiez]

Dave, I do agree with Strike that the OD should report all corruption that takes place no matter where it is or who it involves. Have no problem at all with that. Many then we can clean up some of the corruption in our local governments.

Just can't bitch about the OD running this series.

[strikeslip]

Modern corruption needs to be exposed -- in Utica, New Hartford, and wherever it affects us. Have no problem with the OD doing that -- but it does not.

Instead it reprises the bad old past at the drop of a hat. Its anti-Utica pro-New Hartford bias is destructive to both communities. (BTW I live in NH)

[Swimmy]

I agree with bobbbiez's perspective. And I don't think the contention is so much that it should not be unearthed. Rather, the contention is that the past is being used to overshadow the present. If, instead, the disgrace wanted to improve its ratings by doing a fully fact supported op-ed and alllowed for true investigative journalism, and unearthed the past as an aside rather than the headlines, then I think everyone would be less weary about this mob series.

[bobbbiez]

Bringing up the past does remind all of us how it could get worse and is an eye opener and warning to those who otherwise would sit on their lazy a**es at home and not get involved to help dismantle the present corruption.

The downside is I believe corruption in politics and local government will never cease. We can vote them out when we are dissatisfied, but the faces and names we have to choose from never changes. We have to take the power away from the political parties and choose our own candidates and more important work for them to get elected. Question is... can we arouse the voters enough to do that? Not going to be an easy task.

[fiona]

If the OD wants to print stories about abuse and corruption in the past, they should hard copy our Gen Flats/Olbiston series. That would probebly knock their eyes out. then they could follow up by running the Carrie Cobb/John Karl story, all about death and prostitution in Utica at the turn of the century, while the police simply looked the other way. Girls as young as 12 went" into these houses of assagination" and city bigwigs simply looked the other way, until someone died- and that someone just happened to be a well connected young man, or no one would have even known or cared about it. Utica has always had it's tenderloin. It just shifts boundaries and neighborhoods as the city ages and the ethnic makeup of the population changes. Nothing new here. What's that old joke about " if you want to find a whore house first find the local police station and then walk across the road?"