|
Post by dgriffin on Apr 22, 2009 20:52:33 GMT -5
I was at a writers' group tonight and submitted "Martian" for critique. An Italian woman, originally from the Bronx, had two comments about the sauce "Mrs. Gambino" is making in the story. One: you don't put celery in it, and Two: it ain't called sauce, it's called gravy. What do I know? I never cooked tomato sauce. The woman suggested Mrs. Gambino be cutting up garlic. As to "gravy," I told her I had heard the term used for tomato sauce, but never in my home town of Utica. Which is true, as far as my memory goes. Does any Italian cook in Utica call tomato sauce gravy? And what other stuff could Mrs. Gambino be cutting up to put into the sauce. Remember, it has to be something she stuffs down the front of the paperboy's pants.
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Apr 22, 2009 21:05:39 GMT -5
My cousins husband refers to tomato sauce as gravy. He is Irish. My Italian side of the family almost put something down his pants. This was many many years ago. After his family returned from the Orient they built a beautiful villa on the upper gulf area of Florida. Now he is wealthy enough to call it anything he wants.
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Apr 22, 2009 22:04:47 GMT -5
I had an Italian neighbor in N Utica that made her "gravy" every Saturday for the family's Sunday dinner. She used carrots in making her sauce and then strained them out at some point. I think they started out in the olive oil with the garlic and onions at the beginning of the process, although I am not sure, and I never really followed closely how she made it. I HAVE eaten it though, and it was wonderful.
Her husband worked with me at the base for years. After he had a stroke, I used to mow their lawn and snowblow their driveway in winter. I would often be invited for a Monday lunch of leftover meatballs in a hot covered sandwich, covered liberally with her "gravy". That sandwich was as good as any full dinner I ever ate in any Italian restaurant.
|
|
|
Post by frankcor on Apr 22, 2009 23:06:17 GMT -5
Oh yes, very much so, gravy is the preferred term for sauce in Utica and in Rome. More common is the term "Sunday gravy."
I just recently listened to a CD titled "Growing Up Italian in Utica" by Joe Graziano and he talks about Sunday gravy in the East Utica of his youth.
As a suggestion, Mrs. Gambino could be breaking up the stale bread before soaking it in water for the meatballs.
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Apr 22, 2009 23:42:56 GMT -5
Wow Frank. Kathy does the wet stale bread in her meatballs instead of bread crumbs from a can. I always thought that it was strange, but I guess it is an Italian customary way of making the meatballs. Kathy makes a killer "gravy" and some really good meatballs for a Polish girl, haha.
Kathy makes her sauce from a combination of either crushed tomatoes and whole tomatoes that she squeezed in her hands and drops in the pot. She cooks it for at least 6 or 7 hours and sometimes more. She doesn't use paste and cooks it until it reduces to a thick and chunky consistency. It is especially good in the tomato season when she makes it with tomatoes from the garden. Her mother used to also use carrots in the preparation of her sauce. Her mom didn't strain them out, she would squash them into the sauce with a food mill and you would never know that they were in the finished product. I think she told me once that they added sweetness and killed some of the acidity of the tomatoes.
Kathy's gravy is my favorite. Her sauce sits on top of the pasta and doesn't run. You have to MIX it into the pasta, and it never runs down to puddle on the plate UNDER the spagetti.
Kathy's meatballs are made with a combo of fresh ground chuck from the market, and ground pork that I grind and freeze myself, when pork butts are on sale. I make ground pork for use in making breakfast sausage, and Italian sausage, and we add it to meatballs and meat loaf for moisture and flavor.
|
|
|
Post by chris on Apr 22, 2009 23:44:17 GMT -5
Well I'm not Italian but grew up in East Utica. All my friends were Italian, my neighbors, even wound up with Italian inlaws....never heard it called gravy then. I did however hear it called that down in Long Island and the City. I remember hearing someone call sauce gravy the first time and my reaction was ..........what? To me it will always be sauce.
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Apr 22, 2009 23:49:07 GMT -5
Hey, I don't care what they call it as long as they keep making it, and it is as good as the sauce/gravy that I am used to, haha. I don't do Ragu, or Prego except as a goulash sauce with hamburger when we want to throw together a cheap and quick supper. Homemade is the secret to the whole thing, whether it be gravy, sauce, or some other name, haha.
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Apr 23, 2009 5:51:28 GMT -5
My mother is 100% Italian, though her sauce leaves something to be desired. It's good, but a little on the bland side lately. Anyway, you can't have a good sauce/gravy without garlic (crushed and minced) and onions (thinly sliced).
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Apr 23, 2009 8:43:45 GMT -5
LOL swimmy. Her sauce may be a "little bland" lately because as we age, our tummies quite often don't like acidity and spices quite as well as they did when we were younger.
I thank God that I have not had that problem to date. I LOVE spicey foods and herb infused dishes of all sorts. The more flavorful the better for me. Kathy suffers from acid reflux and has to be careful.
When I do roasts I often infuse a small amount of either beef or chicken broth with garlic and spices, by simmering it on the stovetop, and then I strain it and inject it into the center of the roast with an injector. I makes for very tasty, and always moist and tender, meat.
Swimmy, to maximize the onion and garlic flavor in your sauce/gravy, use a garlic press for the garlic, and don't crush it until you are going to use it. We never buy "crushed garlic" or "minced garlic" in a jar. Also for enhanced onion flavor, instead of slicing or chopping onions for your sauce, you can maximize the flavor by grating the onion on a box grater.
|
|
|
Post by dgriffin on Apr 23, 2009 16:34:11 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, that was helpful. I think I'll have Mrs. Gambino making "what I call sauce. She calls it gravy." And Frank, the bread crumbs are a great idea, because most of us will be able to feel it when George says, "Then why do I have bread crumbs down the front of my shorts?"
|
|
|
Post by chris on Apr 23, 2009 17:54:13 GMT -5
Sauce, gravy whatever.........I am going back in time now to my old neighborhood on my way to mass and the whole neighborhood smells like meatballs and fresh sauce cooking every Sunday morning. That and a fresh loaf of Italian bread and I'm in heaven. (not to mention stopping after church to the coffee shop next to Florentine's...not Mello's...for coffee and Italian toast...ahhh the good ole days.
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Apr 23, 2009 18:46:17 GMT -5
You guys are bringing back so many wonderful memories of my youth and my later years of life. I still make sauce the old fashion way; handed down from my Italian grandmother and my mother. Usually in a meat sauce the base of the sauce is garlic, onion and carrot's; just a few chopped fine. The meat is a combination of ground beef, pork, and veal. After that is browned add tomato puree and tomato paste, salt, pepper. basil and oreganno bring to a boil then add just a half teaspoon of baking soda; gets the acid out . and then simmer everything for a couple of hours. This is great with homemade ravoli or rags( rags are a macaroni cut from the pressed dough that you would usually make ravoli.
A great bottle of red wine a loaf of Italian bread with a crispy crust and wham I'm in heaven.
PS: I think I will go there Sunday'
Florentine's... I'm there afternoons twice a week, usually not many people
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Apr 24, 2009 16:44:03 GMT -5
Concerned, yours is the same recipe handed down from my old Italian mother-in-law to me for my gravy-sauce. She did use both words. The only thing different was she used one teaspoon of sugar instead of the baking soda to cut down on the acid. The rest is all the same. We still practice the old tradition on Sundays. In the morning it's the fried dough, fried meatballs and demitasse to wash all down. For dinner it's the macaroni. Don't think we'll ever lose that tradition. Maybe with my sons but my daughter will definitely carry it on. It's a wonderful family get-together.
|
|
|
Post by chris on Apr 24, 2009 19:05:02 GMT -5
I think the coffee shop was the Goodie Shoppe and you guys are making me wish I was back in Utica for a nice dish of macaroni. ....and no one beats the Florentine for pastry. I bought a pustie here at Savoia's (one of the top Italian bakeries here) They don't even come close to the Florentine......
Concerned ...next time you go to the Florentine can you ask if they know Lello and if he is back. He retired and called me minutes before he was leaving town and closed his apt and phone and was to be gone 6 months to visit family in Italy. His brother lives upstairs for years.
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Apr 24, 2009 21:05:51 GMT -5
Chris, I always liked Florentine's pastries also, but I have to say Cafe CaNole on Culver Ave is much better in pastries. My family has their list of which we like the best in favorite Italian foods and cakes. For rum cakes we go to Caruso's. For canoli cakes it's the Florentine. Tomato pie and Italian bread it's Giuseppe's. Sausage rolls and Italian dishes it's Rosa's. For the best pizza it's no other then O'Scugnizzo's. Sorry, am I making you drool? Can't beat Utica for the finest Italian food.
|
|