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Post by tanouryjr on Feb 25, 2009 21:49:48 GMT -5
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Post by tanouryjr on Feb 26, 2009 0:30:42 GMT -5
Just wanted to thank Strike for plugging this post over at his blog. strikeslip.blogspot.com/2009/02/aack.htmlI actually cited several of his writtings while pleading with my fellow Utica legislators to oppose this. Fortunately, after everyone was about to vote for it, all but one Utica legislator voted against it. We got 8 NO votes - two shy of the 10 required to defeat a bonding measure. |
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Feb 26, 2009 2:12:59 GMT -5
This sewer issue is, quite literally, going to kill Oneida County in general and Utica in particular.
There is no conceivable way they can raise the combined sewer renovation cost of 300+ million dollars. That means the system will continue to decay while millions of gallons of raw sewage keep getting pumped into the Mohawk River and Barge Canal. I think it's also going to doom the super-mega-ultra-nanotech facility: the millions of dollars they're spending to improve the site is nothing compared to the pricetag for installing on-site water treatment. The alternative is a facility pumping millions of gallons of water into an already overloaded system, sending even more feces into the river.
Sadly, it's time to accept reality and begin "winding down" operations in Oneida County. If, and it's a big if, the powers that be can gracefully shutdown the sewer system as the population tumbles they can probably squeeze another 20 years out of it. That will give salvagers enough time to recover most of the useful materials from the buildings as they're abandoned.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2009 4:31:48 GMT -5
Larry, please name the Utica legistlators that voted to screw over their constituents. I want to remember them next election time. And where was Roefaro in all this? With his mouth closed as usual. If Utica officials won't represent our best interests, then get rid of them.
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Post by tanouryjr on Feb 27, 2009 16:59:36 GMT -5
Kracker - Every Utica legislator voted against this with exception of Roseann Converntino. And I was wrong, we were only ONE vote shy of defeating it. With Ro's vote, we would have effectively beat down a bonding measure for the first time in, well, forever as far as I know. And it would have been all because of Utica legislators. This would have certainly woken up the powers that be, and given Utica a voice again.
Unfortunately, she voted against Utica and with the "crowd."
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Post by lefty on Feb 27, 2009 17:04:20 GMT -5
Q: How many times have the County Taxpayers bailed out Utica
A: Many
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Post by frankcor on Feb 27, 2009 17:11:49 GMT -5
So close, yet so far. Well, I guess it remains to be seen how the phrase "you've got to go along, to get along" works out for Roseann
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Post by tanouryjr on Feb 27, 2009 18:58:27 GMT -5
Q: How many times have the County Taxpayers bailed out Utica A: Many "Bailed out Utica"  ? You tell me when. Utica has its own police, dpw, economic development agency, fire, 911, etc. What does the city of Utica actually get in return for their county tax dollar? Don't even mention Social Services because that's not exactly something to be proud of. We would be more than happy to help any town or village set-up subsidized housing there. But we KNOW they would NEVER allow that. Give me a break. |
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Post by Swimmy on Feb 27, 2009 21:33:21 GMT -5
Q: How many times have the County Taxpayers bailed out Utica A: Many "Bailed out Utica" ? You tell me when. Utica has its own police, dpw, economic development agency, fire, 911, etc. What does the city of Utica actually get in return for their county tax dollar? Don't even mention Social Services because that's not exactly something to be proud of. We would be more than happy to help any town or village set-up subsidized housing there. But we KNOW they would NEVER allow that. Give me a break. Don't forget that Uticans will have to pay for the stupidity of new hartford's notions of ''economic development''! |
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Post by frankcor on Feb 28, 2009 7:06:23 GMT -5
I don't know that these can be classified as bailing out Utica but county taxpayers have certainly put a lot of money into Utica facilities such as the zoo, historical society, library, Stanley theatre and the Aud. Granted, these are regional resources but there are comparable functions throughout the county that do not get the level of support as the ones in Utica.
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Post by lefty on Feb 28, 2009 10:11:02 GMT -5
Larrry ,
Oneida County Taxpayers funds have been spent on ;
Murnane Field
The Utica Zoo
The Utica Aud
The Stanley
Not to mention County taxpayer money being spent on putting sidewalks and other projects put in the city of Utica for a start. So what did the Oneida County Taxpayer from Camden, Florence, Vernon get in return.
A: NOTHING
Lets not talk parochialism here!!
besides when the County money did go to the Zoo the animals werent even replaced when they died, I bet if the watering can that Hanna built was recycled the money recovered could buy half of a monkey. Larry I am not trying to start an argument with ya, but Oneida County money is being spent in the City of Utica. Parochialism will never end in this area because thats just the way it is, have you ever thought that if the County was considered "One" with One Police Force, Fire Department, DPW, Purchasing, and example would be Suffolk and Nassua County, I think this idea could benefit this area into being a regional economic force. However there are far too many Kingdoms in which the Kings wouldnt want to lose "their" courts!
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Post by strikeslip on Feb 28, 2009 19:30:21 GMT -5
Lefty -
I am really tired of having Murnane Field, the Utica Zoo, The Utica Aud, the Library, the Train Station, and the Stanley thrown in Uticans' faces as examples of the county's beneficence because these are REGIONAL assets that were constructed when UTICA was the region . . . they need to be paid for regionally.
The most recent situation that Larry brings up is simply an outrage because Uticans are being asked to pay for suburban sprawl. Local municipalities are responsible for their own local sewers . . . Utica will be on the hook for $150M in repairs to its own local sewers. The $150 M COUNTY sewer problem was caused when the SUBURBS hooked their LOCAL SANITARY SEWERS into a county COMBINED sewer overflow. That enabled the suburbs to grow their tax bases. However, the hookups were ILLEGAL. What should have happened was for the suburbs either to limit their growth to what could be supported on septic fields, or to build separate lines to collect the sanitary wastes from the new developments and bypass the overflow before connecting to the county system. That was not done because the suburbs would have had to come up with millions. They got out on the cheap by violating the law. Now the "County" [which is mostly Utica sewer users] is being forced to change the county system to accomodate an improper suburban local sewer system.
I AM ALL FOR ENDING PAROCHIALISM. I LIVE IN NEW HARTFORD. I BELIEVE WE SUBURBS SHOULD ALL BE PART OF UTICA. We will then share the costs, share the tax base, and share the decisions of where growth will take place. (I, frankly, would love to have seen all the new New Hartford growth take place on Broad St in Utica instead .. . Utica would have been revitalized, and New Hartfordians would still have an apple orchard near by -- The County has no business aiding growth in my town when it comes at my neighbor's (Utica's) expense. The county -- at the behest of developers who will get rich -- is turning the suburbs into parasites which live off Utica's dying carcass).
THEN Let the New Enlarged Utica take back the sewer system, water system, Aud, Zoo, Library, 911 etc etc from the county so the folks in Rome Camden Ava and Boonville dont have to pay for facilities they hardly use. That would be only fair. Let the New Utica have its own industrial development agency. Hell, give New Utica the Utica campus of MVCC (and give the Rome Campus to Rome) . . . Maybe New Utica could even take back the old OC Airport.
If you live in a Utica Suburb and don't want to become part of Utica, but still use the Water system and Sewer system the maintenance of which are being carried by Utica residents, then YOU are the one who is being Parochial.
The idea of merging everything at the county level is ludicrous. We are not Nassau County, or even Onondaga. Oneida county is too diverse with populated regions separated by sparsely populated ones. If everything were placed at the county level, people living in the stix would expect to be provided with the same levels of service as those in populated areas -- but that would not be cost effective. That is why villages and cities were created: places where people live close enough together to service efficiently. Our sprawl (encouraged by the county's regionalization efforts) has already made our tax rates unsustainable. It will be worse if the entire county were to take over all municipal services.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 28, 2009 20:18:02 GMT -5
 Strikeslip, I don't always agree with you on many topics but here I have to agree with you 100%. What you stated is probably the best that would benefit all the most.  The down side is that I can't see it ever happening in my life time. Lefty is right in stating, "there are far too many kingdoms in which the kings wouldn't want to lose "their" courts." Your proposal wouldn't get to first base. None would be willing to give up whatever power they feel they have. 
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Post by strikeslip on Feb 28, 2009 20:38:05 GMT -5
Bobbbiez, Inspite of what you read in the OD, there is a group in New Hartford that is getting wise to what is going on and they are becoming more and more impatient with town government. People did not move to New Hartford for shopping or business parks. More and more people are becoming disatisfied with a town government (with a lot of County help) that continues to grow itself by encouraging more activities to move from Utica to the Town. Someone recently commented at a town planning hearing that if the town wanted to grow condos in washington mills then he would have stayed in utica. Its getting rediculous. We have a surplus of highly paid suburban police sitting around writing traffic tickets when drugs are being sold (to suburban kids?) in Utica because their arent enough police to enforce the law. I'd love to kick them off 840 and send them to Cornhill or W Utica where they will do some good.
I think people are ready for CHANGE.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 28, 2009 21:29:40 GMT -5
I am hoping what you say comes to light. All can do nothing but greatly improve "all" areas if change does take place.  If you or anyone else wants to get together to set something up to bring to our legislators, you can count me in. I'm sure there are a lot of people here on the forum and others in all our areas that will also be willing to get involved. Just let us know. It would be great, if I can finally see something happening in my life time that will benefit the city of Utica and the surrounding areas all as one. 
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Strikeslip, I don't always agree with you on many topics but here I have to agree with you 100%. What you stated is probably the best that would benefit all the most. 
