Utica Area Taxes

[dgriffin]

Does anyone have a rule of thumb for total property taxes (school, county, city, town, fire, etc.) for housing in the Utica area that can be applied to home prices? I assume that by now the state has made each municipality go to 100% assessment, so I should be able to apply a figure to any home asking price for an approximate tax dollar amount. (Although the homes will still be a bit under-assessed in most cases.)

If you don't know the official amount, you can divide your total annual property tax bill by the number of thousands of dollars your home is worth and then post just that figure, preserving your privacy. (Or PM me.)

For example, if your total tax bill per year is $3,000 and your home is worth $180,000, then divide 3,000 by 180 for an answer of
almost $17 per thousand.

I'm interested in that figure for the City of Utica and as many of the surrounding towns as I can ascertain.

Thanks very much!

Dave

[clarencebunsen]

Dave, What state are you living in? Doing assesments on a rational basis would mean the elected help would have give up a source of power. Utica went for 50 years without reassesments. New Hartford tried regularly scheduled assesments to full valuation and town officials got slapped silly.

Assesments in New York are done the way Baal intended, in candle-lit room with a pentacle drawn about the workstation.

[dgriffin]

CB, I do live in NY, and I can't believe my town assessor's office is the only rational one in the state. The Office of Real Property Services:
www.orps.state.ny.us/
has quite a bit of info online for property owners and assessors. It has published standards and detailed methods for the standardization of assessment throughout the state. My county (Ulster) and local town has done a pretty good job of towing the line re the standards. Even so, there games that can be played (such as under-assessing everyone) and scheduling revals in segments.

Locally, we have a watchdog organization that continually monitors the assessor's office and takes them to task for any variation from state standards. One important accomplishment was their successful fight to put all assessments, by owner and by address, on the Internet, so taxpayers can do comps in the comfort of their own homes. This act also surfaced a few undiscovered fairness problems that then received attention from the Assessor.

I can understand the possibility of Utica being out of sync, if so. The State may not want to add to its problems for the time being. But outlying towns should pretty much be coming into line with state assessment rules. Your local assessor should be able to provide you with an assessment form ... yours or a blank ... and you can compare this with the methods stipulated on-line. If your town is way off, turn them in to the ORPS.

[bobbbiez]

Dave, if I'm remembering correctly Utica had a city wide re-assessment done ten years ago. I remember because I had requested a hearing for my property and my Mom's because they assessed ours way to high and I did get both lowered to a fair assessment.

What are you exactly looking for?

[clarencebunsen]

The operative words are "should be." From what I have read equalization rates for this area vary widely.

Can Oneida County be annexed by your town?

[frankcor]

Dave, the combined city, school and county rate for my home in Rome is $51.51/thousand. I calculated it by adding back in my STAR savings which works out to around $8/thousand.

That's the rate for the outside district which doesn't include some services. The rate is higher for the inside district; I think the difference is around $5/thousand.

Rome is currently assessed at 92% of theoretical real value.

[dgriffin]

Frank, Holy Sh*t! That's an awfully high rate. Mine is about $20 per thousand, without STAR. (But our home values down here are about 52% higher, using 2000 census data.
dollartimes.com/Mortgage/New-York/

We are theoretically at 100%, but haven't had a reval in some years and besides, we're all under-assessed, probably to avoid arguments. (It wouldn't affect the tax warrant, anyway). So for my home value, I calculated the mean between my assessment (before STAR) and what I think is the current value of my home. Then divided that into my total tax bill.

Bobbbiez, what I'm looking for is the Total Taxes per $1,000 of estimated value of homes. As I stated in the first post, just add up all your taxes and divide it number of thousands your home is worth.

All of this is to answer the question (for a brother), "When I look on the Internet and see homes for sale, how much would I expect to pay yearly in total taxes in the various towns in the Utica area?" I didn't want this to be complicated,although I recognize sometimes it is.

[dgriffin]

Feb 10, 2009 21:54:21 GMT -5 clarencebunsen said:

The operative words are "should be." From what I have read equalization rates for this area vary widely.

Can Oneida County be annexed by your town?

Yes, the rates do vary, but they should be uniform within the town, so that taxes are applied fairly. I won't argue with you CB, and it's true that Assessments can be unfair. But I'm impressed that the state has come a long way toward forcing towns to use similar standards.

In fact, state law requires the assessor to sign an oath that everyone in the town is uniformly assessed, and our last assessor was challenged when he signed it after he did separate business and residential revals a year apart. The local Committee Against Government Abuse took him to court and he later left office.

Our problem is tax rates, for the most part. Spending.

[frankcor]

Dave, I know it's high. Utica is likely a little lower because of a larger tax base. My sense is that New Hartford and Whitesboro are higher than Rome.

Welcome to Central NY. You might find better government somewhere but you couldn't possibly pay more.

[dgriffin]

Feb 11, 2009 11:32:34 GMT -5 frankcor said:

Dave, I know it's high. Utica is likely a little lower because of a larger tax base. My sense is that New Hartford and Whitesboro are higher than Rome.

Welcome to Central NY. You might find better government somewhere but you couldn't possibly pay more.

Yeah, but look at this home on North George St. for $450K.



www.homes.com/Content/ListingDetail.cfm?City=ROME&State=NY&FirstRec=1&Radius=0&Bedrooms=&FullBaths=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PriceRange=&AmenitiesList=&PropType=%20&TotalRecs=61&PropIdList=72572915,77156009,77433840,75049911,67340058,65475000,80936336,70505908,69551258&PropId=72572915#stay


Or this home in Rome for $129K



www.homes.com/Content/ListingDetail.cfm?City=ROME&State=NY&Radius=0&FirstRec=19&OrderBy=price%3AD&Bedrooms=&FullBaths=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PriceRange=&AmenitiesList=&PropType=%20&TotalRecs=61&MinSqFt=&MaxSqFt=&LotSize=&MinYear=&MaxYear=&PropIdList=3_80746373,3_78479198,3_78675315,3_79977624,3_79265556,3_76634229,3_82582499,3_77560678,3_79695251&PropId=78675315&NHC=1&searchorig=main


You certainly get a lot more for your money in Rome than in many other areas of the state (a benefit of economic decline, maybe.)


It seems that while the selling price of a 4 bedroom colonial, for example, on a half acre might vary widely across the state, the taxes on it are the similar. That would make sense, I guess, since the State is driving the taxes. At a tax rate of roughly $50 per thousand in Rome, the larger house above calculates to about $25,000 in property taxes.

Down here, that house would easily go for 1.2 million. At $20 per thousand, the taxes would be about $24,000.

I know that example doesn't follow the uplift figure from the 2000 Census, but I can't see that house going for a penny less than 1.2 million in this area.

And working backwards with the second house:
50x130=$6,500 annual taxes.
So, 6500/$20 per thousand = a selling price of $325,000, which is about right for my area down here.

[Clipper]

Hey Frank, is that top picture Tim Birnies house on North George?

[frankcor]

No, Birnies' house is a more modern-looking version, not as large. I know that house but I couldn't tell you who owns it.

[Clipper]

Thanks Frank. I was only there once many years ago to pick up a company suburban from his driveway. I drove for him part time for a while. I also knew his dad. Bud Birnie was a great guy. He used to drive his own bus to NYC and hang out with us. At that time, there was only ONE charter bus in his fleet and a few school buses and vans. Amazing how THAT business has grown. Talk about a success story huh?

When I worked for him, he had about 5 or 6 motorcoaches, and about 100 school buses. I guess he has hundreds and hundreds of buses all over the state now.

[dgriffin]

Well, so far I've got a Tax$/Thousand for Rome. Anyone in Utica or New Hartford want to do the simple calculation? Hey, Whitesboro! Need a calculator?

Just divide what you think your house is worth in thousands into your total property taxes in dollars. E.g., if your total taxes are 4,000 and your house is worth 180,000, then 4,000 divided by 180 equals about $22. The $22 is all I need. You don't have to reveal your taxes or your home value.

There WILL be differences among you in your calculations within the same town. Not because you're taxed differently, but because each of you will estimate the value of your home differently. Remember, I'm not asking you to use assessed value, just what you think your house might be worth in your private calculation.

And you can always PM me. If you do, I won't reveal your rate, not that it would tell anything.
Thanks,
Dave

[frankcor]

My city tax bill has my assessed value as well as the city-wide assessment percentage value on it. I presume the Utica bill would have the same information. I'm not sure if the towns would show that.